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[K45]

Hi, I've been looking into supplements to help with the insomnia/anxiety during the progesterone withdrawal phase of sequential hrt. Apparently it helps with GABA so similar to the effect progesterone has on the brain. Has anyone tried this before? At the moment I'm on D3, magnesium glycinate and turmeric as well as estradiol 2 pumps and utrogestan 200 mg 2 weeks on/off. It's crazy to think a year ago wasn't taking anything and boom the joys of perimenopause! I didn't want to add more supplements if it's not likely to be beneficial. Any thoughts much appreciated

[joziel]

I've tried 65000 supplements and spent a small fortune and not really found any of them to do much. I superstitiously kept taking them and probably spent way too much money.

Eventually I got my estrogen high enough, and ta da - best improvement ever. I still take melatonin which I get on iHerb and if I can't sleep still, apigenin (which is in the Huberman sleep stack). And if that doesn't work, then I take a trazodone. It's rare I need the trazodone now. I took one last night though. I've tried l-theanine and it didn't do much for me...

[K45]

Thanks so much Joziel for your response. Like you, I've tried so many different supplements. It's helpful to know that you've tried l-theanine and found it didn't do much. I know magnesium and antihistamines definitely help so will stick with these. Up until 2 weeks ago I've been stupidly drying the gel with a hairdryer in a rush before bed and I think maybe this meant I haven't been absorbing it fully since March. I'm really hoping this is the case and some of the peri symptoms will ease as the level builds up. Good to hear the symptoms eased for you once your estrogen levels were high enough.

[joziel]

Oh for sure don't dry it with a hairdryer, it will just evaporate and you won't get to absorb it. I just lie on the bed with a leg outside the sheets till it's dry. It actually dries fast compared to Sandrena which was ridiculous....

[K45]

Thanks, yep I now put it on a good 10 mins before bed so it's properly absorbed. I don't know what I was thinking!

[Penguin]

Not for insomnia specifically, but for the progesterone withdrawal few days I used to use liposomal gaba from Life Extension Europe. Found it really helpful,  along with GABA tea from meileaf tea company. I gave up on hrt earlier this year but I still drink the GABA tea.
I also take melatonin for sleep, mine is from biovea

[K45]

Thanks so much Penguin - I've not heard of these and will have a look into them. Did you find the progesterone withdrawal days on sequential hrt got easier in time or is it just something to put up with until it's appropriate to move to continous? I wish GPs would warn about the potential for withdrawal symptoms on this regime although if I'd known how bad the anxiety and insomnia might be in this period I likely would have looked for an alternative to hrt.

[joziel]

K45, I would just move to continuous but with a 5 day break to allow a bleed. It means only 5 days without P instead of 2 weeks. I'm in peri and that's what I do anyway.

I usually bleed every 23-26 days and when I start to see blood, I stop the P for 5 days to allow a proper bleed. Then I start it again. I don't get any bleeding or spotting any other time of the month, despite being on a high E dose.

[K45]

Thanks Joziel- I need to discuss this with my GP as she said back in July that at my review next June the plan would be to move to continous hrt but to come back sooner if any issues. My stubborn nature has prevented me from flagging up that things have been pretty awful for months as I just hoped everything would be ok and feel like I've somehow failed to get my mind/body to accept the 2 weeks stop start routine. I keep telling myself to be patient and carey on trying this regime as it's only 8 months until I likely change to continuous but at the same time it's exhausting dealing with the withdrawal period. I'm also a bit scared from reading how some women have found continous progesterone worse. It's the fear of the unknown...

[joziel]

I get the fear of the unknown, but really this is all about trial and error and once you've trialled something for a max of 3 months, you know how it is going to go... it's unlikely to change unless you change something.

You don't really need your GP's approval to make this change. If I were you, I'd just do it and then tell her about it at your next review. Then you can also tell her how it's going. If it has solved things or not. Which means your next review will actually move things on faster because perhaps, if it doesn't help, you'll be onto the next thing.

Otherwise you are just delaying feeling better because you won't try changing anything until then and will then have to go away and trial it before you know if it helped...

[Penguin]

Thanks so much Penguin - I've not heard of these and will have a look into them. Did you find the progesterone withdrawal days on sequential hrt got easier in time or is it just something to put up with until it's appropriate to move to continous? I wish GPs would warn about the potential for withdrawal symptoms on this regime although if I'd known how bad the anxiety and insomnia might be in this period I likely would have looked for an alternative to hrt.

No it carried on for me for the whole 14 months I took hrt. If you can go continuous hrt and can tolerate the utrogestan when on it then maybe worth a go. Chopping and changing didn't work for me and I'd spiral every month when I stopped the utrogestan, but also hated the utrogestan in general. Are you okay when you are taking the utrogrstan? If you are, then continuously may be worth a try x

[K45]

Joziel- thanks, I get what you mean that if I don't change anything then nothing changes. I wasn't sure whether it was ok to adjust the regime without discussing it first with my GP. Last month I took 100 utrogestan for one night after 3 nights off then got into a panic about it and bottled it. I think the biggest problem is anxiety which along with the brain fog is really affecting my decisions. Hopefully I'll be able to speak to my GPs PA just to ask her if it's ok.

Penguin- thanks for clarifying the progesterone withdrawal is unlikely to change.14 months sounds like a very long time to have to deal with it - are you managing ok without hrt? The week after stopping the utrogestan I find the worst then I  feel really relieved to have got through it and not have anything in my system. Then it takes a day or 2 to readjust to the utro and then after a week I'm already feeling anxious about the withdrawal process. It's like being on a rollercoaster and I think I now want to get off but I'm scared changing might make it worse!

[Penguin]

Joziel- thanks, I get what you mean that if I don't change anything then nothing changes. I wasn't sure whether it was ok to adjust the regime without discussing it first with my GP. Last month I took 100 utrogestan for one night after 3 nights off then got into a panic about it and bottled it. I think the biggest problem is anxiety which along with the brain fog is really affecting my decisions. Hopefully I'll be able to speak to my GPs PA just to ask her if it's ok.

Penguin- thanks for clarifying the progesterone withdrawal is unlikely to change.14 months sounds like a very long time to have to deal with it - are you managing ok without hrt? The week after stopping the utrogestan I find the worst then I  feel really relieved to have got through it and not have anything in my system. Then it takes a day or 2 to readjust to the utro and then after a week I'm already feeling anxious about the withdrawal process. It's like being on a rollercoaster and I think I now want to get off but I'm scared changing might make it worse!

Yeah I'm a lot better without it. But then I'm still in peri and I think it's hard in this stage to get the dose right when my own hormones are fluctuating so much. I may well go back to it when post meno. I ended up seeing a psychiatrist privately and the ssri I am now on (along with a couple of things I take ad hoc when needed) has also helped the insomnia and hot flashes so I am feeling mostly pretty good. Even my pmt has gone from being 2 weeks out of every month to 1-2 days and I am just so much calmer in general. Not the answer for everyone and I know a lot of women are fobbed off with antidepressants when what they need are hormones, however it works for me and I feel better now than I ever did on hrt.

[K45]

Sorry Penguin, replied earlier but it doesn't seem to have worked!  Really pleased to hear you have found something that is working well and that symptoms are more manageable now. Better sleep and less PMT days sound wonderful and it must be a huge relief to feel so much calmer now. It's definitely reassuring to know there are alternative approaches to surviving perimenopause that do work.