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[TheMidnightSkulker]

It's not a requirement to belong to the BMS - and neither, in my eyes, is it a marker of a 'good' menopause doctor necessarily, at all. Just as, in the US, there are 'NAMS' (North American Menopause Society) doctors still prescribing oral estrogen and 'shortest dose for shortest time' stuff. Just because an organisation exists and proclaims itself THE definitive organisation for something, doesn't make it into that.

Ah OK, thanks for clarifying that.

I think you're giving the BMS way too much power in all this. It's just a charity bringing together doctors who specialise in the menopause and offering education and training - and membership.

All I really meant to say was: you were worried that LN would be discredited because of this Panorama episode, and your access to treatment would be blocked as a result. And I was trying to say that Panorama doesn't have the power to do that. And now you've explained that BMS doesn't have the power to do that either.

What Panorama have the power to do is kind of the same power that sensationalist newspaper headlines have, to influence the opinions of uninformed people who walk past them on their way to the Tube. If you know nothing about HRT, and you see enough headlines screaming "HRT BAD", you're going to assume HRT is bad. Which brings me to your final point:

But doctors are easily influenced (sadly) and making a song and a dance about it via Panorama can easily lead to them suddenly deciding this is a very bad thing, having not cared about it before.

Well, as I said, I hope that the majority of actual doctors would not be dumb enough to mistake a TV documentary for an authoritative source. But by the law of averages, some of them could be. However, I think that the people most likely to be negatively affected by the Panorama episode specifically, are patients or potential patients who get scared off by it.

Anyway, I'm sorry your GP is letting you down.

[Kathleen]

Hello again ladies.

I don't think Louise Newson will be too worried about the Panorama programme or the decision of the BMS. There are plenty of us who shop around for health care and her clinic is firmly established. The Panorama team found some patients who had a bad experience and highlighted their stories which is what journalists do for a living.

 The Panorama headline asked if the menopause was big business and it is, too big  to be brought down by this programme.

Talking of business I wonder about the  Rock the Menopause website? Could they be a commercial organisation looking to build a database by asking practice nurse to mention them to their patients?

Menopausal ladies represent a large and lucrative market so it's no surprise that we are the target of various businesses but that's okay, we are grown ups and we can make our own decisions about who to trust and how to spend our money.

Wishing you all well ladies.

K.

[Suziemc]

Talking of business I wonder about the  Rock the Menopause website? Could they be a commercial organisation looking to build a database by asking practice nurse to mention them to their patients?

Most definitely!

The site is run by Uniphar Commercial (E4H) Ltd whose own website boasts "We deliver innovative digital and in-person services, which ensure our pharma clients achieve commercial success".

There's nothing underhand, they very openly encourage people to sign up to "become a menovist" and note that "By signing up, you agree to receive news, stories and updates from Rock My Menopause and their partners"

Data gathering indeed for that large and lucrative market you mention!

[Ayesha]

I signed up with the Rock My Menopause website months ago and the first I heard anything from them was yesterday when asked to fill in a questionaire re the Panorama programme but so far all I see is advice on menopause and nothing else. They have a FB page which I won't join but it all seems perfectly ok with no hidden agenda. 

Since Panorama was aired the tide seems to be turning against the programme with criticism from many for the scaremongering it has caused, for me it was disgusting, headline grabbing and sensationalist journalism. I don't think Louise Newson has anything to worry about.

[dangermouse]

Agreed - I've been fortunate in not requiring anything other than VA treatment.  I do wonder whether it's because I have been taking anti-depressant medication since 1988 as well as anti-anxiety assistance in various forms when necessary: so any peri-anxiety may have been better controlled?

I wonder the same. I started hrt because of peri symptoms, quit after 14 months due to too many fluctuations, my E jept spiking and i just couldn't tolerate tge utrogestan. At the same time as quitting, I started an AD called fluoxetine (aka prozac), been on that since May and pretty much zero meno symptoms returned aside from a bit dry down below. Zero hot flushes at all and I'm sleeping really well too. It's weird. Good but weird.

This is possibly because the neurological symptoms are not directly a result of sex hormone dis-regulation, but because our adrenal glands now have the added burden of producing sex hormones, as the ovaries pack up. Stress hormones become more volatile, particularly if there are other adrenal stressors such as emotional stressors, nutritional deficiencies and even well intentioned fasting regimes.

Progesterone can buffer some of this via the GABA receptors, and also can keep oestrogen from spiking too high but, as oestrogen is excitatory, it’s certainly not going to help you to relax (unless it’s the high dose oestrogen strategy to shut down your own volatile oestrogen receptors where that is actually creating the anxiety etc.).

[KaraShannon]

I'm too exhausted (as usual) to say a lot. 

My jury is out.  Louise Newson was always going to be a target for journalists looking at menopause as her head was well above the pulpet.  Panorama's reporting didn't seem balanced at all.  I haven't been to the newson clinic yet, I will probably think very carefully about going, but I would definitely still be considering her clinic when making a choice.

[Penguin]

Agreed - I've been fortunate in not requiring anything other than VA treatment.  I do wonder whether it's because I have been taking anti-depressant medication since 1988 as well as anti-anxiety assistance in various forms when necessary: so any peri-anxiety may have been better controlled?

I wonder the same. I started hrt because of peri symptoms, quit after 14 months due to too many fluctuations, my E jept spiking and i just couldn't tolerate tge utrogestan. At the same time as quitting, I started an AD called fluoxetine (aka prozac), been on that since May and pretty much zero meno symptoms returned aside from a bit dry down below. Zero hot flushes at all and I'm sleeping really well too. It's weird. Good but weird.

This is possibly because the neurological symptoms are not directly a result of sex hormone dis-regulation, but because our adrenal glands now have the added burden of producing sex hormones, as the ovaries pack up. Stress hormones become more volatile, particularly if there are other adrenal stressors such as emotional stressors, nutritional deficiencies and even well intentioned fasting regimes.

Progesterone can buffer some of this via the GABA receptors, and also can keep oestrogen from spiking too high but, as oestrogen is excitatory, it’s certainly not going to help you to relax (unless it’s the high dose oestrogen strategy to shut down your own volatile oestrogen receptors where that is actually creating the anxiety etc.).

That's really helpful to know thank you, I hadn't thought of adrenals in playing a part. Just that I feel the most emotionally stable that I have in a decade (with and without hrt). I also supplement with GABA once my period cones as, for some reason, the drop in progrsterone when I bleed, is the worst few days for me. Mine isn't pmt now, it's that I have a couple of tougher days when I actually get my period and I put that down to the progesterone dropping and consequently GABA. I find liposomal GABA plus GABA tea really helpful for those couple of days.
Now just to sort out the dry vagina 🤣

[Kathleen]

Hello again ladies.

I have just received an email from Newson Health in response to the Panorama programme.

It was sent to me as they believe I am still a patient, even though I haven't dealt with them for about eighteen months,. I should probably contact them and explain that I am now obtaining my HRT etc from my GP surgery.

The email basically refutes the claims of the programme and reassures all patients that NH  is committed to providing the best quality care.

I imagine a similar message has been posted on other NH platforms.

 I don't think the Panorama programme will negatively impact the clinic and I am sure that many ladies will have a good experience if they choose to contact them.

Take care ladies and wishing you all well.


K.

[CLKD]

I have to congratulate you all on very levelled responses more eloquently put over than I could possible do 

Why isn't the BMS in the News more, why aren't they contributing to MM?  Why does the organisation need 2 have Charitable status 

[Ayesha]

Its interesting that there are so many articles in newspapers written by women journalists and their experiences, like how the NHS is letting women's health down, etc and with reference to the Panorama programme. Apparently one was listening to Women's Hour and had to resist the urge to throw her shoe at the radio. I couldn't read the articles because these days you have to subscribe and I won't be doing that!

Suffice to say that LN has a lot of support out there, I am happy to say.

[CLKD]

I've bought the national papers this week and can't find any 'letters pages' relating to the Panorama program although I haven't opened today's Telegraph thus far.

[Seasidegirl]

For info I've received this standard response to my complaint to the BBC about the biased and unbalanced journalism relating to the programme.

They seem to have omitted to respond to my request for them to investigate the poor state of NHS menopause care that leads so many people to have up access private treatment 🙄


Thank you for getting in touch with us about the Panorama programme ‘The Menopause Industry Uncovered’ which was broadcast on Monday September 30.

The programme explored the growth of the menopause industry, from menopause care through to the products marketed to women as being able to help alleviate their symptoms.

With regards to HRT, the programme was very careful to make clear throughout that oestrogen has been shown to be safe and effective at licensed doses, up to 100mcg a day, and that it has helped many women with menopause symptoms. It was also made clear that you should not stop taking any medication without speaking to your doctor first.

We are confident our investigation was in the public interest and that it was fair to Newson Health. We stated within the programme that Newson Health has seen 45,000 patients since 2020 and many women have been helped. Dr Newson’s own contribution to changing the face of menopause care was also acknowledged.

The programme highlighted concerns about prescribing practices at Newson Health after speaking to 15 former patients who told the BBC they had experienced complications following treatment there. In the course of their research, Panorama discovered the British Menopause Society has removed Dr Louise Newson from its register of menopause specialists because of concerns over high dose, off-label prescribing. This led to the BMS to issue a joint safety alert last year with five other specialist organisations, including the Royal College of GPs and the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists.

In addition, Panorama discovered that the Care Quality Commission is currently looking into “information of concern” at Newson Health clinics “to understand if there are any risks to people using the service and whether further action is warranted”. Clearly, it is in the public interest to report on these concerns, which are being expressed not only by women themselves but by a wide range of experts in menopause care and some former Newson Health doctors.

The programme made clear that General Medical Council guidelines allow specialists to prescribe above licence if they think it may help a patient. Clinicians should explain the risks so they can make an informed decision. However, undercover recording of two consultations with Newson Health clinicians found the journalist posing as a patient wasn’t informed that the safety of above licence doses of HRT hasn’t been established through clinical trials. This was not made clear in the follow-up information sent afterwards.

The programme-makers invited Dr Newson to take part in a filmed interview for inclusion in the programme, but she declined. Newson Health provided written responses to the points raised by the programme. These were on behalf of the clinic, Dr Newson and the two doctors whose consultations were included in undercover filming, and these were fairly reflected throughout the programme.

The recent rise in the use and popularity of menopause services and products has highlighted the need for more regulation and clear guidance to protect women, and we’re confident the programme was successful in stressing the importance of this.

Thank you again for getting in touch.

Kind regards,

BBC Complaints Team

[CLKD]

"undercover filming" - wonder where that took place? 

[dangermouse]

They showed it, it was filmed during an online appointment, and the clinician was clearly not doing their due diligence with the mystery shopper.

Interesting that LN declined to be interviewed, as when they have reported against the BHRT clinics prescribing off licence and compounded products, Marion Gluck was happy to be interviewed and it provided the balance that this programme clearly lacked. By declining it comes across as arrogant as she is very media savvy and would have come across well.

[CLKD]

Tnx.  Where has the BMS been all these years, it's been open that higher than 'usual' doses have been prescribed