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[Seasidegirl]

I tried everything to improve sleep, magnesium, no devices,  no alcohol , no caffeine,  relaxing meditation blah blah blah.  CBD oil definitely helped but the only thing that really helped sleep has been HRT.   

I'm still peeing at least twice a night despite stopping fluids at 7.30pm.  It was initially better when I first started HRT (end May) and I have just increased my oestrogen dose.

I'm in the loading phase of vagirux (same as vagifem), following the wise words here I'm planning a 3 week daily phase and I'm aiming for using it twice a day (although not quite hitting the second time every day owing to work commitments).

I have found it better not to use it before bed,  it seems to make me pee, maybe it irritates the bladder initially or it's psychosomatic but either way I try to use it morning and afternoon/ early evening.   

[Minusminnie]

If it helps Seasidegirl vagifem used to be a 25mcg pessary so the initial 2 week loading dose was higher followed by recommended 25mcg pessary twice a week.

I will leave you to do the maths but @ 20mcg a day initially you are getting close to the old regime.

The 10mcg vagifem does give more flexibility with dosing levels & spread ability than the 25mcg used to.

[Seasidegirl]

If it helps Seasidegirl vagifem used to be a 25mcg pessary so the initial 2 week loading dose was higher followed by recommended 25mcg pessary twice a week.

I will leave you to do the maths but @ 20mcg a day initially you are getting close to the old regime.

The 10mcg vagifem does give more flexibility with dosing levels & spread ability than the 25mcg used to.

Thanks Minusminnie,  I'd read that and it is what has given me the confidence to "overdose", its been really helpful info from the posters here.   I've managed to get a bit of a stock so I've got enough to keep the level up.   

I'm planning to do a third week at as close to 2 a day as I can manage, it's sometimes difficult to do the second if I'm in the office all day as I'm avoiding bedtimes,  although thinking about it I've now got a second applicator so I could do the second at work without having to faff about with remembering to bring the original with me. 

Currently I'm not seeing any benefit but I didn't feel symptomatic before other than wee'ing constantly which might also be my borderline hyperthyroidism which is a whole different story!

Thanks again

[Ms_london76]

So the urinary thing started (waking up at night several times) started while I started to vagifem.

I also don’t have the best sleeping cool temps where my room has no airflow and can be 22-23 degrees overnight.

My bladder is clearly annoyed by using vagifem. I went from not waking up at all pre summer, to once during the night. And now with vagifem 2-4 nights so it’s escalated.

I have pulled all irritants and I am sore tired. I know it’s is supposed to help with bladder issues, and it is supposed to get worse before it gets better.

But I am so tired during the day now. Last Friday I went to a gas station and left my bank card in the machine, and had to replace the card that day.


I know ppl are saying systematic hrt. I will speak with my dr on Monday cuz I am miserable with lack of sleep.

Now that I thru the third week of daily doses can I pull back to a few times a week.

I don’t think it’s an infection urine is always clear. And it only burns right before I pee but not during. Or after when I emptied the bladder.


Or should I switch to another vaginal estrogen?

[joziel]

I'd try systemic HRT and maybe switch from Vagifem to Ovestin internally. You might find it more soothing, being a cream... plus it will come down and coat externally as well.

If you are stinging when you pee, that is external. That is your urine flowing over broken skin. If you are just putting Vagifem up your vagina, that isn't going to be getting to the right place...

[Ms_london76]

I am confused as some say the burning is normal? And I have to wait it out so this is where I am confused.

I will be seeing my dr on Monday and go over some other options

I did insert two high last night and had to use a gel moisturer which seems to makes it more angry with the burning than better

[joziel]

The burning is normal but it means you have a broken skin barrier. You have micro cuts in your vaginal tissue.

If you have ever had invisible paper cuts on your hand or really dry hands that have cracked in cold weather, that's what your vag has right now. When you wee, it burns running over those cracks.

You need estrogen so the skin barrier heals... That is why you have the cracks. Lack of estrogen causes vaginal dryness.

[Ms_london76]

That makes more sense and thank you for the visual. Vagifem is supposed to restore estrogen into that area.

But it is so early on. It doesn’t hurt to pee but sometimes right before or after.  But not during.

Today was a bad vagifem day, inserted it too high last night and suffered that bad burning again at night and in the morning..

I taught my first class and changed the lower half for the second. Stayed behind to do my own yoga flow in the non hot room removed the pantyliner and after a few minutes everything calmed down.

The smell down there is different not fishy at all but weird musky I guess this is the vagifem.

Been taking it for about 21 days now and wanting to reduce to two or 3 times a week now.

I am convinced vagifem is irritating my bladder which is why I wake up so much at night to pee.

Will be seriously looking at systematic hrt when I talk to my dr

[joziel]

Vagifem is going up your vagina. Not right where you are feeling the stinging. It hopefully will eventually reach your external vulva but it's going to take some time and it's going to most help the place you're putting it. It is probably a good choice for your bladder issues because it's much closer to your bladder up there, but it won't help the stinging.

Ideally you would also have some Ovestin and you would use the Vagifem internally and smear some Ovestin externally. That will help most with the stinging. That's what I was prescribed when I had this, both at once - one internal and one external, both daily and ongoing.

[Ms_london76]

The burning is not on the outside at all, it’s inside the vagina walls where I put the vagifem basically

Will ask the dr for Ovestin as well

[Minusminnie]

I did insert two high last night and had to use a gel moisturer which seems to makes it more angry with the burning than better

On that basis have you decided to leave out the gel for now ? maybe introduce it or a different product again later.

Vagifem is sold in the UK in pharmacies as a product called Gina.  There is a short video (watch our guide) under the FAQs in the Gina information under 'when does Gina start to work' that might be a visual for you.

https://www.mygina.co.uk/faqs/?utm_campaign=gina-website&utm_medium=gina-website&utm_source=%2Fvaginal-dryness-menopause%2Fwhat-is-vaginal-atrophy%2F&utm_content=Site%2BNav%2Blink

Can't remember if you have said but if you are using a pantyliner during yoga is it a zero % fragrance free one ? 

[Minusminnie]

The burning is not on the outside at all, it’s inside the vagina walls where I put the vagifem basically

Will ask the dr for Ovestin as well

If the burning is not on the outside vulva area and you are sticking with Vagifem i would save asking for Estriol cream until another day.  Ovestin is now known as Estriol 1mg/g cream.  There are weaker estriol creams at 0.01%

Just my thoughts as some GPs are reluctant to give out both vagifem and estriol together (may be different in Canada) and you are early days with the vagifem.

[Ayesha]

You have lots of options and none which should be rushed into, I think you mentioned you are oestrogen sensitive and we always say trial and error and patience with the treatments.

We are soon to have new guidelines here from the National Institute For Health And Care Excellence on 7th November which will include the use of topical oestrogens, updates which will hopefully stop all the nonsense about dosage.

[joziel]

Are you absolutely sure it is internal (the burning)? The vagina really doesn't have great nerve endings compared to the vulva and it doesn't really make much sense why it would burn when you urinate, as urine isn't going to touch your vagina...

[Ms_london76]

It burns where I put the vagifem so the inside. It does not feel like the outside

I am wearing the Pantyliners less and less. When I taught two classes in the hot room yes. Post class and shower I removed it right away.
Supposed to be unscented. Switched to frangrnce free hypoallergenic body wash to help minimize anything.

It does not hurt when I pee, it hurts when I have to pee.(when my bladder is full) Than I pee and the burns subsides. During peeing I feel nothing. Sometimes there is a post pee burn but it does not burn at all when I pee.

Today is day 21 of vagifem in a row (loading) between the burning everyday and not sleeping at night I am so miserable.

Will pull back tonight and start a 2 or 3 times a week regime. I need to sleep I am so tired all the time.

I suspect vagifem is irritating my bladder at night. Once a night to pee but three times a night! Didn’t have this problem prior to starting vagifem.

I don’t know how much longer I can hang in without sleep.