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[Wrensong]

Persistent joint pain & stiffness past 5 months, affecting flexibility, limiting activities.  Neck, lower back, hips, elbow, shoulder, thumbs.  Back pain/stiffness is the most limiting, worse after immobility e.g. rising from bed/chair & can be fleetingly excruciating on shifting weight after standing for a while.  Prior to this, always had v good flexibility, now feels like joints have rusted.  MRI 2 yrs ago showed disc degeneration in C-spine, but only to a degree common for my age (62).  Also have osteopenia. 

Physical fatigue disproportionate to effort has ramped up to a level I remember from peri 12+ yrs ago (pre-HRT), as if every muscle fibre is burnt out by early afternoon.  I do sleep v poorly for various reasons inc horrrible night sweats, but that’s nothing new.  Ferritin only 20 post-hysterectomy summer 2023, 62 last test, on iron bisglycinate (ongoing).  On Vit D many years but result hovers around insufficiency as side effects preclude a higher dose.  Muscle bulk, always minimal, declined further with enforced abstention from exercise for 3 months post-op last year & haven’t regained it.

No obvious inflammation in joints, no soft tissue swelling, redness, heat, though some finger joints look enlarged/misshapen.  Inflammatory markers always low, but not tested recently.  Diet good, weight low.  Exercise: walking, static bike (when energy permits), light weights & recently started yoga stretches.

On HRT 7+ yrs, now oestrogen only.  Serum E2 <200 on 2 tests this year, but lower in past without significant joint probs.  Don’t fare well on higher oestrogen at this age.  Had BSO 2018 & find testosterone helps with muscle strength, stamina & more but frustratingly off it due to hair loss of uncertain cause.  Also hypothyroid 30 yrs, with chronically low T3, on T4-T3 fine-tuned to tolerance.

Does this degree of joint pain, stiffness & fatigue sound par for the course at 60+?  Perhaps naively, I hadn’t expected it!  Mentally I‘m at my best when busy/active, so this debility is frustrating & demoralising.  Sorry so long, but hope detail will help.

[CLKD]

Mis-shapen finger joints can be due to oestro-arthritis - wear and tear - or rheumatiod arthitis when joints can be suddenly extremely hot, swollen and painful.  The latter is an auto-immune condition - years ago gold injections were given successfully into swollen joints but it became too expensive for the NHS to continue with. Apparently. Even though patients had good benefit.

VitD - I need to get my levels checked as I've been exceptionally weary in the last 6-8 months: when I wake my head doesn't want to get out of bed ..... as well as needing to sit after any gardening activities. 

I'm known for dropping off to sleep mid-afternoon and apparently: I snore  Moi? 

[SarahT]

Hi Wrensong

Well I'm 57 and ( I think ) still in peri. I naively assumed that hrt would help with debilitating joint pain but it just got worse despite me upping my oestrogen dose.
After many blood tests, x-rays and scans, I was found to have osteoarthritis in hips, knees and fingers, fibromyalgia and inflammatory arthritis which mostly affects me in hands and wrists. I too have misshapen fingers and await physio. The fibro has it's own symptoms but likes to intensify angry pains... That's fun...

I would definitely ask your gp for more testing. It may well  be linked to thyroid ( I have underactive too ) or vitamins deficiencies as you are aware. Do seem gp advice.

 CLKD is right in rheumatoid arthritis being auto immune, but their are several types of inflammatory arthritis - and ( as in my case ) a small minority do not have the RA markers show in their bloods,so are considered seronegative. These days newer drugs are used to try to slow the progress of the condition.
Osteoarthritis is very common as we age, to varying degrees but I would still get checked out.

I would suggest you look at the Versus Arthritis site, which is extremely informative. Or NRAS which is geared to the inflammatory types of arthritis.  Extreme fatigue is often  seen in these types of arthritis. Just to see if anything on these ring further bells.

[Ayesha]

Does this degree of joint pain, stiffness & fatigue sound par for the course at 60+?  Perhaps naively, I hadn’t expected it!  Mentally I‘m at my best when busy/active, so this debility is frustrating & demoralising.  Sorry so long, but hope detail will help.

No, its definitely not the usual aches and pains that one gets with the aging process in what you are experiencing. I would say SarahT is spot on in her post and you should seek further advice.

[Wrensong]

Thank you CLKD, SarahT & Ayesha, that's all really helpful. 

SarahT I'm sorry you have arthritis, fibromyalgia & hypothyroidism to contend with, it sounds like a horribly debilitating combination.  I hope the physio will help you.  Do you know how long you'll have to wait?  You'll know we can have joint issues with hypothyroidism but it's not one of the more widely recognised consequences & neither my Endocrinologist nor the spinal surgeon I saw for the neck issues suggested a link.

I did briefly mention the joint & muscle pain to my GP when seeing her about another issue a few weeks ago.  There wasn't time for her to go into it in depth but she suggested osteoarthritis on basis of appearance of my hands & the prior findings of arthritis in C-spine on MRI.  I got the impression she thought it all pretty much to be expected at my age, but never having been 62 before(!) I wanted to know other women's experiences & thoughts on it.

I've had some pain in various joints in the past on & off for quite a few years but it's only lasted for a week or two each time & never in all these joints together.  The widespread nature this time, persistence & degree of lower back pain & stiffness mean I tend to agree with you Sarah & Ayesha that it seems more than I'd imagine to be normal for age.  I self-referrred for physio a few weeks ago so will see what they think when the appt comes.  I did also have physio for the cervical spondylosis & core strength a couple of years ago but it only made matters worse!  Thank you for the website pointers Sarah, I have done some reading around since the neck issue was diagnosed but not sure whether I looked at those sites specifically so it's helpful to know trustworthy sources of info .
Wx

[CLKD]

Morning.  It's important to have good solid footwear as the spine will compensate all the way down if feet aren't comfy.

Let us know how you get on.

[Wrensong]

Morning CLKD.  Good point about the footwear.  I had orthotic insoles a few years ago but had forgotten there can be adverse consequences for spinal alignment if footwear isn't right.  I'll see what the physio says as they usually analyse gait.

[sheila99]

I would see your gp before the physio. Some are great and will check there are no underlying problems first but others don't and can make things worse. And then there's the 20 something who dismisses all joint pain because 'everyone over 40 has arthritic changes'. Which just happen to show themselves at the exact moment a bl#£%# sheep ran full tilt into my knee 

[Wrensong]

Ouch Sheila.  How frustrating to be fobbed off like that.  Are you OK now?

I'd wanted to avoid bothering my GP again just now given how busy they are but that was good advice, thank you.  I'd been thinking that a good physio would anyway probably not want to treat me without further imaging or specialist opinion.  They set imaging in motion for OH after he self-referred for a leg problem so I'm expecting they might do similar for me.  I'll think about it though & may go back to a GP before the physio appt comes through as you suggest.

[Kathleen]

Hello  Wrensong.

I'm sorry that you are suffering with so much  joint pain. 

I don't have any answers unfortunately but I wonder if it's worth asking for another blood test to check inflammatory markers? You say that it's been a while since this was looked at and it may be that there has been a change recently. I find that GPs are happy to arrange blood tests, probably because it is a job for the nurses! If your C Reactive Protein has increased you may find a non steroidal anti inflammatory is enough to calm things down.

I hope you get this sorted soon and sending hugs.

Take care.

K.

[bombsh3ll]

Definitely ask your GP for a blood test to check for rheumatoid arthritis.

My mum, aunt and nana have/had this.

Similar presentation to what you describe.

Don't try to get it addressed on the end of an appointment for something else - they have 8 minutes and are not likely to give it the attention it deserves if you do that.

Blood tests are not 100 percent conclusive but a good place to start.

Regarding the testosterone, this can also be extremely helpful with musculoskeletal issues. Debatable whether it contributes to hair loss but there's a case for putting your health and quality of life before what others MIGHT think (but probably don't) about your hair.

[Wrensong]

Hello Kathleen, lovely to hear from you & thank you for posting.  It's so helpful to know other women's thoughts as we age, given all manner of unexpected things seem to occur without any obvious cause  .

Yes, that's a good point, asking to test again for inflammatory markers as it's 3 or 4 years since it was last done I think.  Another thing for the list . . !

Hug back to you.
Wx

[Wrensong]

Hi bombsh3ll.  Yes, I have found T helpful over the years & the hair loss could be down to several causes.  It's more how I'd feel about it if I lost much more than about others' opinions, but I've also given myself the health is more important talking to, so I hear you on that.  I haven't given up on T, just trying to tune in to what's going on for now.

Thank you for posting.

[Jillyboo]

I'm approaching 70 and this year I seem to have begun to fall apart (despite over a decade on HRT!). Really horrible neck pain which has been diagnosed as spondylosis (age related arthritis) and trochanteric bursitis (pain at the top of the leg when walking any distance, when getting up from being seated etc. - again mostly age related). I have tried a steroid injection for the leg pain which was great for about three months but apart from that its either a case of taking painkillers or low dose amitryptyline every day which I don't want to do unless it gets unbearable. All I can say is getting old ain't for cissies!

[CLKD]

Agreed Jillyboo - I thought that I had sciatica but turns out, diagnosed by a physio who gave me exercises: which I forget about : bursitis.  Which wakes me in the early hours and is no problem in the day.

If I don't kneel when loading dishwasher etc. I get low back pain which seizes me up  .  Humans should not have evolved upright!  When I see myself in a shop window I notice that I am beginning to bed forwards = risk of osteoporosis so Note To Self!