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[koolkat]

Good morning al
I am 57 years old, hit menopause at 50/51, on HRT since I was 52, (so about 5 years. I take Utrogestan daily and Estrogel pump (2 pumps), no issues with any of the two.

Up to know I have been getting older in a kind of gradual way, a bit of skin sagging, jowls, a few wrinkles etc.
However, in the last two weeks an incredible amount of wrinkles have appeared all over my cheeks out of nowhere seemingly overnight. I always had chubby cheeks and I can understand gradually losing some fat on my face, which is what has been happening, which may have caused a bit more sagging, but this sudden wrinkling of my cheeks is so quick and sudden. I am drinking water, I cover my face with SPF50, apply moisturizer morning and evening, hyaluronic acid and retinol, but not really sure what is going on here! I saw a doctor recently for another issue and they just mentioned as possible factors, sun, ageing, lack of water or hormonal drop. Well thanks but I knew all of those, none to justify such a quick appearance though….but I don’t know much about the hormonal drop. Recently I had a blood test which showed that estrogen was on the low side and was advised to increase it to 3 pumps, but I did not do it because I am feeling well as I am.
Anyone else experienced such a rapid increase of skin ageing, and what do you do about it?
I don’t want to seem vain but it is upsetting me so much, I saw a cosmetic doctor who just advised skin surface laser but I am not looking for this kind of solution, I just want to try and understand what is causing this.

[RebJT]

Hi

I am not sure I can entirely answer your question, but if your blood levels are lower than they should be this will lead to loss of collagen, we need oestrogen to build and retain collagen, it also makes the skin bouncy and hydrated.  I hear you on feeling OK but if your doctor has recommended an increase, why not try?

Also whilst most women are in menopause by 52, some go much longer and you might have been producing some of your own hormones until now?

Also those of us on oestrogel have had a sudden dip in levels since they changed the bottles (big thread going on here if you want to have a read) - my levels have dropped from over 1,500 to just over 100 despite increasing oestrogel dose (I've been on a ridiculous 7 pumps with no success, after being stable for years), my gynae says that when women complain like this, they've changed the formula even if they deny it.  I had a severe worsening of skin in that period.

I switched to patches yesterday and woken up this morning to no chest wrinkles or neck wrinkles, it really dose have an amazing effect on skin, I honestly look ten years younger over night!  It's one of the key things I notice when my E levels dip.

Depending how much you want to invest in your skin, you could try a collagen supplement - there are vegan and animal based versions (Bulk powders do a good reasonably priced vegan version), and if you want to go further, aesthetic injections of Profhilo makes the skin build collagen - I do this and it's marvellous stuff, called a 'skin booster' (it's not a filler) - recommend seeing a trained nurse or dentist with a side hustle not a beautician for this.  It's not cheap but two sessions a month apart should last a year.

But really the answer is oestrogen.  Come and have a read of the Oestrogel thread, I'd bet the farm that's what the issue is, many women in the same boat.

Reb
x

[koolkat]

Hi Reb. Thank you so much for your very comprehensive response! It does make a lot of sense. I am in Italy atm and as I have run out of Estrogel I was given an Italian brand, Estreva. We tried to work out the doses as they seem to be different strenght and size per pump but I have just started it. It's 0.1%
I will join your thread, and thanks for the tips about Profhilo, I got sucked into the internet with all the miriad of things...this defo helps!
Cristina

[koolkat]

Could you point me to the right Oestrogel thread? I searched but there are too many
Thank you

But really the answer is oestrogen.  Come and have a read of the Oestrogel thread, I'd bet the farm that's what the issue is, many women in the same boat.

Reb
x
[/quote]

[RebJT]

Hello

In haste, we're here https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,67309.0.html

Reb x

[AngelaH]

Unfortunately this is the falling estrogen level in ours bodies which is responsible for appearing wrinkles. Nothing else will help, only estrogen.

I used to be estrogen dominant and that helped me to keep my face looking younger until I became post meno, wrinkles on my face appeared just like yours “suddenly over night”.

Unfortunately I can’t take traditional HRT, due to “intolerance” to estradiol.
But when I tried it at the beginning of my “treatment journey”, the first result which I had was great cosmetic effect on my face and nails. I liked it, but my body inside hated it. So had to stop it.

I am using now estrogen face serum, it contains estriol and it does great job for my face, even better than when I was on traditional HRT. It’s not supposed to go anywhere else except the face, it’s designed to work only on the face, but I have very unique body with extremely sensitive receptors over my whole body, it means estrogen from the face goes to my blood stream and reaches all the parts of my body.

I wasn’t sure if it would be suitable solution for you because you are already on HRT, but it looks like you are really low in estrogen and adding a small amount of estrogen directly on your face can help.

[koolkat]

Hi Angela
thank you for your reply. What is estrogel face serum? I imagine is prescription only. I wonder if it would be possible for me to top up in that way rather than add more pumps.

Cris

[AngelaH]

Hi Angela
thank you for your reply. What is estrogel face serum? I imagine is prescription only. I wonder if it would be possible for me to top up in that way rather than add more pumps.

Cris

It’s not prescription, because it’s considered to be a cosmetic product and it is sold on the market  by companies, which produce it. You are in Italy, so I can’t really know what is available in your country, you need to google it to find out. Anyway UK does not produce it at all and I am relying on USA products, I personally use Wellsprings face serum, it contains estriol and progesterone, you are already taking a big dose of progesterone, so I am not sure if you can add more progesterone to your body without effecting your hormonal balance. They are the same bioidentical estriol and progesterone, which are used in your medication prescribed by your health care provider.

It does say this product is designed to work only on your face and it doesn’t go to the rest of your body. But in my case it does go. So you need to be aware that taking this product additional dose of estriol and progesterone may be added to your current HRT. It contains 0.11% estriol and 0.5% progesterone, the body absorbs through the skin only 3% of  estriol and 20% of  progesterone, so you have an idea how those doses may affect you. You also can Google it, probably you can find the same product in Italy, but which contains only estrogen and designed for use on the face.

[Hurdity]

We have discussed this on other threads but I wouldn't use any unlicensed (in UK) product produced in US containing oestrogen, on the face. There are concerns which others have expressed.

I would take the advice of skincare specialists and potentially increase your oestrogen dose if your doc has advised you to do this - but only if you have other symptoms that warrant this (other than wrinkles) or which indicate your oestrogen dose is not optimal.

Maybe if it is happened suddenly the wrinkling is only temporary eg have you lost weight recently?

Hurdity x

[AngelaH]

For those, who would not use, better not to use. Simple. Nothing to discuss.

[koolkat]

I have lost 1 kg (I was 52, now 51) not a lot but have (used to have) chubby cheeks,  I am monitoring myself for other signs of lack of estrogen. My sleep has worsened and I am having terrible mood dives in the morning as soon as I wake up.
I'll go back to my gynae when I m back in UK and see if I can try the patches

Thanks



I would take the advice of skincare specialists and potentially increase your oestrogen dose if your doc has advised you to do this - but only if you have other symptoms that warrant this (other than wrinkles) or which indicate your oestrogen dose is not optimal.

Maybe if it is happened suddenly the wrinkling is only temporary eg have you lost weight recently?

Hurdity x
[/quote]

[Furyan]

Good morning al
I am 57 years old, hit menopause at 50/51, on HRT since I was 52, (so about 5 years. I take Utrogestan daily and Estrogel pump (2 pumps), no issues with any of the two.

Up to know I have been getting older in a kind of gradual way, a bit of skin sagging, jowls, a few wrinkles etc.
However, in the last two weeks an incredible amount of wrinkles have appeared all over my cheeks out of nowhere seemingly overnight. I always had chubby cheeks and I can understand gradually losing some fat on my face, which is what has been happening, which may have caused a bit more sagging, but this sudden wrinkling of my cheeks is so quick and sudden. I am drinking water, I cover my face with SPF50, apply moisturizer morning and evening, hyaluronic acid and retinol, but not really sure what is going on here! I saw a doctor recently for another issue and they just mentioned as possible factors, sun, ageing, lack of water or hormonal drop. Well thanks but I knew all of those, none to justify such a quick appearance though….but I don’t know much about the hormonal drop. Recently I had a blood test which showed that estrogen was on the low side and was advised to increase it to 3 pumps, but I did not do it because I am feeling well as I am.
Anyone else experienced such a rapid increase of skin ageing, and what do you do about it?
I don’t want to seem vain but it is upsetting me so much, I saw a cosmetic doctor who just advised skin surface laser but I am not looking for this kind of solution, I just want to try and understand what is causing this.

Hi - a few months ago I noticed sudden dryness, sagginess and wrinkling in my cheeks within days of reducing my Evorel patch to below 50. It was as though I’d aged overnight! I put two and two together and figured it was due to low oestrogen so I increased the patch and it improved. Generally, if I reduce my patch to 50 and below I notice a difference in my skin all over - drier, rubbery etc. it doesn’t take much to make a difference. Looks like I’ll be sticking to just over a 50 patch for a while.

[Wrensong]

Hi Furyan

a few months ago I noticed sudden dryness, sagginess and wrinkling in my cheeks within days of reducing my Evorel patch to below 50

My oestrogen dose has been up & down a fair bit over the years for one reason & another, but exactly as you've found I notice within a few days of going below a 50mcg patch that a change in the skin of my face is one of the first obvious signs of lowering the dose.  At first I could hardly believe this wasn't coincidence as it seemed too soon for any such effect to have taken place, but the same happens time & again, so I'm sure it's a thing.  You'll know that declining oestrogen affects the skin in multiple ways, e.g. reduction in collagen, elastin, moisture retention, but given we notice a difference so quickly I imagine it's the moisture loss that's at play in the initial days. 

I don't know if you find this, but also within days of reducing my oestrogen dose I start to pee for England, releasing some of that stored fluid I find oestrogen always makes me retain, so that adds to my feeling it's relative dehydration that's showing at the same time in the face.  It's become easier to recognise cause & effect over the years as I'm postmenopause with no ovaries, so have relative stability in terms of endogenous sex hormone production & was latterly on a long cycle, minimal progesterone regimen so could identify which hormone was doing what in terms of effects on the body. 

If I remember rightly, like me you're on thyroid replacement & it may be that we're more markedly affected by changes in oestrogen because of the thyroid interaction, regardless of the fact our oestrogen replacement is transdermal.

It's interesting/validating to read of another member noticing this same, surprisingly early visible effect of reducing our oestrogen dose.
Wx

[Furyan]

Hi Furyan

a few months ago I noticed sudden dryness, sagginess and wrinkling in my cheeks within days of reducing my Evorel patch to below 50

My oestrogen dose has been up & down a fair bit over the years for one reason & another, but exactly as you've found I notice within a few days of going below a 50mcg patch that a change in the skin of my face is one of the first obvious signs of lowering the dose.  At first I could hardly believe this wasn't coincidence as it seemed too soon for any such effect to have taken place, but the same happens time & again, so I'm sure it's a thing.  You'll know that declining oestrogen affects the skin in multiple ways, e.g. reduction in collagen, elastin, moisture retention, but given we notice a difference so quickly I imagine it's the moisture loss that's at play in the initial days. 

I don't know if you find this, but also within days of reducing my oestrogen dose I start to pee for England, releasing some of that stored fluid I find oestrogen always makes me retain, so that adds to my feeling it's relative dehydration that's showing at the same time in the face.  It's become easier to recognise cause & effect over the years as I'm postmenopause with no ovaries, so have relative stability in terms of endogenous sex hormone production & was latterly on a long cycle, minimal progesterone regimen so could identify which hormone was doing what in terms of effects on the body. 

If I remember rightly, like me you're on thyroid replacement & it may be that we're more markedly affected by changes in oestrogen because of the thyroid interaction, regardless of the fact our oestrogen replacement is transdermal.

It's interesting/validating to read of another member noticing this same, surprisingly early visible effect of reducing our oestrogen dose.
Wx

Hi Wrensong, lovely to hear from you and hope you well…

I find oestrogen a little frustrating because, yes, I am on thyroid medication (moved from NDT to T3 only), and I’ve consistently read that we have to be careful of potential interactions between the two. I’m trying to use as little oestrogen as I can tolerate but I’m finding that dry skin and eyes, joint aches, cramping and libido are all negatively affected if I go to a 50 patch and below.
Right now, I’m concerned about fluid retention and, whilst reducing oestrogen helps a lot with that, it also brings on said issues! So I have to take the equivalent of around a 60 patch. Sometimes I think I might give tibolone a try to be done with the balancing act but, from what I read on here, that option has its ups and downs too…

[KaraShannon]

koolkat

I haven't read all the responses yet but I will as it looks interesting.

Just wanted to say that I have both developed crow's feet overnight and then at other times they have disappeared.  No one has believed me.  In the end I've worked out that it is something to do with hormones.  Oestrogen does take them away, literally overnight.  And during my period (I'm on evorel sequi but not sure if I'm in menopause yet), if it's a bad one as in a lot of symptoms of low oestrogen, my eyes will go puffy and crows feet appear on the sides.

There's got to be something in this.  I see someone's helped above on the hormonal side and I will come back to read, I imagine as it's arrived quickly it's not permanent as yet and there will be things you can do to reverse or mitigate it