Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Bungo]

Am post menopause by a month!Was on 4 pumps oestrogel and bloods showed 120pmol oestrodial and fsh was 96. So changed to 50mg estradot patch and levels of oestrodial after a month were over 300 which is what I want for bone density.  Why is my pain getting worse( have had referred pain from the back and plantar fasciitis for 2 years ) and have good days and bad. Noticed progressively getting worse that last few weeks. Otherwise feeling ok on the patch, no histamine symptoms or bloating etc. never had flushes. Do things get worse before they get better and should I ride it out?  The pain is pretty intolerable some days but if I think it'll eventually improve that's ok
Note , am also taking 100mg utrogestan
 was on the gel for 18 months before discovered not absorbing

[CLKD]

It mayB too much replacement too soon, U may need to vary how you use the regime week by week.  Perhaps put the product names into the search box: individually : to read the threads on each.  Make notes ;-)

As oestrogen levels the muscles may become lax = aches and pains.  Does pain relief help at all?  Who is prescribing for you, a dedicated menopause clninicn?

[Bungo]

I don't take any pain medications, have seen documentaries that explain that  its best to take sporadically else body becomes dependant .
I  get that oestrodial levels dropping can cause pain ( inflammation, increased sensitivity to pain) but can't fathom why pain has increased..maybe it's coincidence. I had such high hopes that hrt would dramatically help my pain levels
Im just wondering if any other women here experienced increased pain when started her but eventually improved.

[Bungo]

Just wanted to update this, in case anyone comes across in future. Pain the last few days has been quite good so it's possible that the more intense pain was unrelated to the increased oestrogen and just due to other factors. I've had bad days and good for a few years now and am always trying to pin down the cause.

[Hurdity]

Hi Bungo

Glad to hear you're feeling better!  It is very easy to attribute all sorts of symptoms to menopause and changes to HRT when this may be coincidence ( and the converse is often true as well - writing off symptoms as due to something else when they are due to menopause!). Higher oestrogen should not cause pain, especially at the low doses you are taking - though sometimes boob-achce until the body acclimatises.

Continuous progesterone can sometimes cause ongoing side effects - but not sure about pain, apart from headaches.

Just a comment about post-menopause. If you have been taking HRT then you will not know when you reach menopause as standard blood tests cannot ascertain this. You can only determine when natural menopause is reached if you are not on HRT or hormonal contraception and 12 months have elapsed since the last natural period (even then sometimes random ovulation occurs after this time!).

Another point is that following menopause, or the last ovulation, without HRT, oestrogen levels drop dramatically over the next couple of years until they reach their final lowish level - though some cyclical activity still occurs during this time and subsequently - though not dramatic as when fertile.

Hope you continue to feel well!

Hurdity x

[Bungo]

Thanks Hurdity, I had a monthly period until Jan 23 -I've been on continuous hrt for 2 years so the periods.must have been 'natural' and my own cycle? Interesting that can still have a bit of a cycle for a few years post meno, that might indeed explain the ups and downs with pain intensity.

[joziel]

If you are only '1 month' into post-meno, I think we can't assume you've totally stopped making all estrogen yourself yet. So it's likely that you are contributing to the fluctuations somehow.

The thing is, 4 pumps of gel is the same as 100mcg Estrodot patch. And you've been put on a 50mcg patch. Whilst women do absorb estrogen differently, instead of assuming that's what's happening, it could also be that your body produced some estrogen which made you think that you are getting enough estrogen from the 50mcg patch...

... when in reality, you might not be getting enough from it (in a consistent way) because your own body contributed some and messed up the results. And really you don't have enough estrogen, which is why you've noticed pain returning.

If I were you, I'd re-test the estrogen again maybe once or twice more to see what the kind of average is or if it is fluctuating a lot (which would be a sign that your own body is making some).

[Bungo]

Thanks joziel, that makes alot of sense. I'd say the walk in GP service I use to get bloods taken must think I'm obsessed😄 I'll get bloods taken every 2 months or so to check. . Would my own levels be changing dramatically enough to cause such changes in pain intensity . Than again maybe even a small variation can cause symptoms

[Bungo]

When do the more dramatic fluctuations stop ? I wish I was just stable so could then fix upon a dose that worked.  I know I'm absorbing more oestrogen from the patch as my boobs are slightly achy which never happened even when increased gel to 4 pumps

[Bungo]

Got bloods taken 18 hours after applying new patch and they were down to 226.  So I must be having my own fluctuations for sure.  If they're above that level on day 4 than that's ok as I really need levels to be optimal for bone density. But am concerned  as  I thought I read that absorbtion from the patch is highest on day 1 and thereafter declines. So possibly the 50patch isn't enough for me. I'll get retested again in a month or so.

[JoannFran]

Hi there

Don’t know if you’re on testosterone? My aches (sore elbow, foot pain, shoulder pain and stiff hip) all went away when I started testosterone. Am also on 100 patches but the testosterone was definitely the major change with the pain!
Xxx

[Bungo]

Oh interesting. I'm not taking
any. Testosterone levels are 1.6, is that ok?
What are your levels since starting?

[Hollyboll]

It mayB too much replacement too soon, U may need to vary how you use the regime week by week.  P

I wouldn't vary it week by week (or day by day) - that's inviting fluctations, which cause as many symptoms as levels

xx

[Hollyboll]

Continuous progesterone can sometimes cause ongoing side effects - but not sure about pain, apart from headaches.

J

Ditto cyclical / intermittent progesterone is a 'fluctuation' each time you start and stop ...
xx

[Hollyboll]

In terms of patch absorption:
- there's no exact equivalence eg between 4 pumps and 100 patches, because different people absorb different products differently
- they are supposed to last for 4 days, hence advice to change twice a week which for most people means every 3 + 4 or every 3.5 days
- plenty of women seem to get consistentish absorption through that time, and that will also depend on their own fluctuations, absorption etc
- plenty of women have a dropoff on day 4 ie after 3 full days.  So the leading meno consultant I'm very lucky to have ended up seeing recommends if you think you are having fluctuations that cause you problems, then change every 3 days.  That's a total pain as it means different days every week but probably lesser of 2 evils if you think you are having probs from fluctuations.
- most people have small fluctuations even if there's no endogenous and their absorption is good and consistent.  in the same way that when you test anything in bloods, it's unlikely to be an identical number every time.  It's big fluctuations that cause a problem - I learned all this the very hard way (mine on patches varied from almost 2000 to under 200 over a day or two) - though I'm not suggesting your fluctations need to be that huge to be problematic!
- as others have said, you need at least a couple of tests to know what's going on. 
- it's important to do those on the same 'patch' day each time.  consultant suggested morning after change night before was best.  That way you have an idea of any endogenous fluctuations too, by making your patch uptake a consistent factor. 
- for most people there may be a little dropoff towards the 'end' of a patch, less likely on day 3 than day 4, less likely to be fluctuations big enough to cause problems ... the only way to know though (once you've worked out endogenous fluctuations) is more blood tests.

Hope you keep feeling better
xx