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[AM16]

Hi all, I’ve found so much help from reading threads on this forum, and think I’m in need of a little more please.

I’m 51 and as far as I know still in peri menopause. I’ve tried various sequential types of HRT over the last 18 months, but apart from resolving night sweats, I don’t feel that well on it. I had a failed coil fitting last November as my cervix is closed (was told down to c-sections and scar tissue) and had a last ditch attempt at FemSeven Conti which brought me out in a rash around the patch. The worst I tried was gel and Utrogestan, the best of them was Everol Sequi, but I feel wired up on it and anxious, and then tired and hot flushy on the conti part of the month. Then I had irregular bleeding (bleeds up to 60 days apart) which was investigated. Lining of uterus thin, but fluid above cervix. Most likely due to pockets of scar tissue but will need a biopsy and they have offered to fit a coil at the same time which I’m really not sure about.

So…I decided to give my body a break from HRT and see where I am in the meno process. 3 weeks on…

Pros - calmer, feel more me, less anxiety, no bloating, lost 4lbs in 3 weeks without changing diet
Cons - night sweats and chills every 30 mins to an hour, poor sleep (because of sweats), sometimes weepy and low, irritable bladder

I spoke to a GP last week and she suggested taking vagifem for the bladder issue and seeing if things settle. I started the vagifem 3 days ago and since then my bad symptoms have ramped up, plus awful headaches. I don’t understand how that can be, as from everything I’ve read here the estrodiol isn’t absorbed systemically and surely if anything additional estrogen would help my symptoms. Not sure whether to ride out the 2 weeks loading dosing or stop?

So…generally I’m in a dilemma. Do I cave in after this 3 week trial and go back to Everol Sequi and accept the anxiety (I realise nothing is perfect), or do I ride this trial out a bit more as I can’t imagine my own hormones will have settled after only 3 weeks of withdrawal. I’d love to hear others experiences and advice please, as feeling very low and a bit hopeless about it all today. Much love xx

[DottyD68]

Hi AM16,

I decided to take a break from sequi HRT (gel & utrogestan) recently after 2 5 years on it.  Main reasons were I constantly had a range of symptoms that came and went so I was always dealing with something. I felt that every couple of months my own hormones had a shift change which wasn't matched by my HRT doseage. I also wanted to see if I had stopped my natural periods as I as still having periods when I went on HRT at 53 and my GP wanted me to go on utrogestan continuously which I dont think agrees with me (after 2 aborted trials).

I delayed stopping by a couple of months as I was caring for my F-I-L who was in end-of-life care and wanted to die at home (250 miles away) which was very stressful. So I have other stuff in the mix as we all do. I am also the main family carer for my 90 year old mother who has Alzheimers and behavioural issues. She is in a local care home .

The first month off HRT I felt fine. Infact pretty good which surprised me. My boobs reduced to a normal size and were no longer uncomfortable and I lost some of my HRT blubber around my trunk. After a week I had sore ribs off and on for 3 weeks which I've never had before but that disappeared.

The 2nd month December I had terribly low mood. This could be linked to the recent family stress and the roll-in to Christmas (which now overwhelms me). Other symptoms re-started like heightened health anxiety, night sweats, insomnia, palpitations, muscle spasms, itchy scalp/face, ankle/foot pain, so pretty rubbish really. This month I have also added awful tooth sensitivity and aching into the mix. I nearly cracked a few times regarding the HRT but I am determined to ride it out for at least 3 months to see if my own low hormones adjust as some of those symptoms come and go. I'm not holding my breath but for me HRT was not the magic bullet I was expecting and I didn't know if the wrong doseage was infact causing me more issues. I can kind of manage a lot of the physical symptoms now but the low mood and anxiety is unbearable so when I next speak to GP in a few weeks I may sugest trying a very low dose patch or ADs (which I have never had before). I have been taking Day Kalms for the past few weeks which seem to have taken the edge off my anxiety which is good.

I am functioning. I keep fit, have a pretty healthy diet, do meditation, have acupuncture etc etc but most days seem a struggle especially after a disrupted night's sleep. I have to have a daily plan and anything that crops up unexpectedly throws me off. My social battery drains very quickly so I have to manage my social activities carefully. I do not recognise myself as I have lost so much confidence and joy in doing anything.  I manage by taking one day at a time.

I suggest you ride it out for a bit longer if you feel you can and then you will have a clearer picture of which way you want to go. Good luck x

[CLKD]

If U feel that ill then stop HRT.  Your body may not require it.

As for the 'vagifem', ask to swap to 'ovestin' as this is delivered slightly differently with an applicator rather than pessary.  Some are sensitive to the fillers/packaging of the pessary.

Let us know how you get on?  When I feel the need2P I swallow 2 Nurofen 3 times a day for 48 hours to ease the nip as the urine flow stops.

[AM16]

Thank you so much for your replies. So much of it seems to be trial and error doesn’t it!

My main fear is that these flushes and night sweats will continue forever and I will die from lack of sleep LOL. But joking aside, I’ve never functioned well on less than seven solid hours and throw a demanding job into the mix it’s a bit of a disaster.

I also really feel I’ve had a terrible reaction to something in the Vagifem which has left me with two days of an increasingly bad headache and low mood and tearful. Husband persuaded me to book an appointment with Newson Health. Don’t feel I have anything to lose. Will let you know how I get on! xx

[Kathleen]

Hello ladies.


I am a long way post meno and I have been using HRT since 2013. A few years ago I came off it and I felt about the same for a few weeks. After that there was a return of night sweats, day time flushing and much increased vaginal dryness. I felt that I was managing okay but then the emotional symptoms began and I became very moody and had crying spells. At this point my GP suggested that I try HRT again but then we went into lockdown and I couldn't get an appointment.
I joined Newson Health as they offered appointments via zoom. 
NH advised me to increase oestrogen as much as possible and reduce progesterone to the minimum required, they also said that when my oestrogen levels were higher they could add in Testosterone. As a private clinic they have  products that are unavailable on the NHS  and can prescribe off licence. They are not cheap but I think many ladies do well with them.

Wishing you well ladies.

K.

[CLKD]

AM16.  Knowing that we may suffer lack of sleep can exacerbate the sleep patterns.  I was in a very busy job for 8 years and looking back, never had a 'good' night's sleep, but I did manage my job as well as enjoying walks, hobbies etc..  The feeling of needing extra sleep was constant.

It may be a reaction to the fillers or packaging in the 'vagifem'.  Ask your GP for 'ovestin' instead, same principle.  Every night for at least 3 weeks then as necessary: some require nightly, some keep symptoms under control with every 3rd and 5/6th nights.  It's a bit Trial and Error.  Let us know how you get on.

[sheila99]

If you have anxiety on the oestrogen only phase and you don't have it without hrt then it could be from too much oestrogen (anxiety is a symptom of both too much and little oestrogen). You could try cutting the patches in half and see if things improve.

[AM16]

Thanks all. You’ve raised some brilliant points and I hadn’t considered it could be too much estrogen causing the anxiety and will ask the GP at Newson Health tomorrow about this. My bad symptoms after the vagifem cleared up after 24 hours of not taking it, and back to feeling calm again with no headache but with very disturbed sleep. Will ask the GP for the cream instead. It baffles me how I get around 3 warm spells in the day time that I don’t even need to take my jumper off for, yet as soon as I turn the light out at night the sweats start every 30 minutes. Aren’t our body’s strange! xx

[CLKD]

Yep.   The hormones run through the body doing different 'things' at different times.   

Let us know how you get on.

[discogirl]

Hi AM16,

I decided to take a break from sequi HRT (gel & utrogestan) recently after 2 5 years on it.  Main reasons were I constantly had a range of symptoms that came and went so I was always dealing with something. I felt that every couple of months my own hormones had a shift change which wasn't matched by my HRT doseage. I also wanted to see if I had stopped my natural periods as I as still having periods when I went on HRT at 53 and my GP wanted me to go on utrogestan continuously which I dont think agrees with me (after 2 aborted trials).

I delayed stopping by a couple of months as I was caring for my F-I-L who was in end-of-life care and wanted to die at home (250 miles away) which was very stressful. So I have other stuff in the mix as we all do. I am also the main family carer for my 90 year old mother who has Alzheimers and behavioural issues. She is in a local care home .

The first month off HRT I felt fine. Infact pretty good which surprised me. My boobs reduced to a normal size and were no longer uncomfortable and I lost some of my HRT blubber around my trunk. After a week I had sore ribs off and on for 3 weeks which I've never had before but that disappeared.

The 2nd month December I had terribly low mood. This could be linked to the recent family stress and the roll-in to Christmas (which now overwhelms me). Other symptoms re-started like heightened health anxiety, night sweats, insomnia, palpitations, muscle spasms, itchy scalp/face, ankle/foot pain, so pretty rubbish really. This month I have also added awful tooth sensitivity and aching into the mix. I nearly cracked a few times regarding the HRT but I am determined to ride it out for at least 3 months to see if my own low hormones adjust as some of those symptoms come and go. I'm not holding my breath but for me HRT was not the magic bullet I was expecting and I didn't know if the wrong doseage was infact causing me more issues. I can kind of manage a lot of the physical symptoms now but the low mood and anxiety is unbearable so when I next speak to GP in a few weeks I may sugest trying a very low dose patch or ADs (which I have never had before). I have been taking Day Kalms for the past few weeks which seem to have taken the edge off my anxiety which is good.

I am functioning. I keep fit, have a pretty healthy diet, do meditation, have acupuncture etc etc but most days seem a struggle especially after a disrupted night's sleep. I have to have a daily plan and anything that crops up unexpectedly throws me off. My social battery drains very quickly so I have to manage my social activities carefully. I do not recognise myself as I have lost so much confidence and joy in doing anything.  I manage by taking one day at a time.

I suggest you ride it out for a bit longer if you feel you can and then you will have a clearer picture of which way you want to go. Good luck x

Hi DottyD68

I came off hrt in November and I would be interested how you get on x

[DottyD68]

Hi Discogirl

How are you finding life without HRT?

I can now add shivers to my overnight symptoms this week! I wake up anytime between 1 and 4am. A minute or so later I have a night sweat, strip off, followed by shivers so layer up again! Aghghgh! If I was convinced all this would settle down at some point at the not-too-distant future I would battle on without HRT, but I'm not convinced. 

[discogirl]

Hi DottyD68

Well my main symptoms were anxiety and lack of sleep. My anxiety has been off and on to be honest and sleep im keeping an eye on.

If I didnt have to take progesterone I would be back on it but I cannot take utro. I was using cyclogest rectally which i was fine on but i wasnt absorbing it and it lead to very high estrogen levels and a very heavy bleed.

Could I ask what was your reason for stopping hrt xx

[DottyD68]

As I was peri-menopausal when I started it I felt my symptoms were only being managed for a couple of months at a time before my own hormones took another step change. It became a constant balancing act of doseage vs symptoms and I never felt great anyway. I felt HRT was actually causing mre symptoms eg swollen panful boobs, anxiety. My withdrawal bleeds were out of sync with the utrogestan so I wasn't sure if it was a natural bleed or just not absorbing the utrogestan. My GP wanted me to go on utrogestan continuously as she thought I should have stopped periods but I wasn't keen on going on utrogestan continuously as I don't think it agrees with me. So given all the above we decded best to give it a break to see where I was in terms of symptoms an periods. The best I felt was when i got down to 1 pump of oestrogel before stopping so I think I need a small dose of estrogen. I dont want to go on utrogestan continuously so I'm thinking about trying a low dose conti patch.

[AM16]

Gosh, this is also interesting. I had an appointment with Newson Health this afternoon and the GP strongly suspects I have a histamine intolerance which is ramping up my symptoms to any type of HRT. She has suggested starting me on the 25 estradot patch and 100 mg of cyclogest nightly. She feels it’s important I’m on a continuous regime now to try and even out the symptoms and reduce the histamine response. I’m very nervous about this, but I’ve gone ahead. I called my GP who said she can’t prescribe Cyclogest, but she encouraged me to give this a go. So I’ve got the private prescription which will arrive tomorrow. I just can’t go on with the night sweats and this three week trial of being off HRT has been interesting and partially successful in terms of how I feel in the day, but has also made me realise that I’m probably very much in the throes of perimenopause at 51 and that I’ll need a bit of help for the next few years. Had a bit of a cry and felt a bit of a failure for giving up so soon as I was so determined at the beginning of January to stay off it, but the night sweats and lack of sleep is so debilitating and my job is so demanding I need to do something. I’ll come back here and give some updates about how I get on. Thank you so much for your amazing support and all your comments and I wish all of you lots of luck in your meno journeys. Xx