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[Hurdity]

This was all over the news yesterday.....

https://www.nice.org.uk/news/article/nice-draft-updated-guideline-recommends-more-treatment-choices-for-menopause-symptoms

I haven't yet looked at draft guidelines so the headlines may well obscure the important details, and may well give a misleading impression - but talking therapies instead of oestrogen replacement?

This is just a quick "knee-jerk" response - I'm all for anything that can help women cope with menopausal symptoms and especially for those who are unable to take HRT for medical reasons but I hope, if these guidelines are approved, it does not lead doctors to prescribe CBT preferentially over HRT when  even today, 8 years after the first NICE Guidelines, some women are still having difficulty getting their doctors to recognise that their symptoms are due to menopause, and to prescribe HRT when this is indicated by the Guidelines - instead prescribing anti-depressants.

If CBT is offered on NHS as well as HRT - then this has to be a good thing - since symptoms of anxiety etc seem for some women to be a regular part of the menopausal transition....(are there enough practitioners though) but not instead of, without good reason, surely?

Thoughts?

Hurdity x

[CLKD]

I put a thread up in 'other health discussions'  yesterday : talking therapy for menopause : ............. do keep up 

What do I feel - it's not polite what I really feel.  The public have time to respond.  Apparently.  Well if the NHS listened to the women in the 1st place? 

How much has this cost the tax payer?

[Hurdity]

I put a thread up here yesterday ............. do keep up 

Lol! I was busy yesterday....

I couldn't see anything on it at all and I was quite surprised - I though it would there would be a very long thread by now - unless there is another forum that lots of women on here also post on....!

Hurdity x

[Diamonds and pearls 53]

Hurdity, l saw a snippet of this on Channel 5 yesterday, and my heart sunk! CBT has its place as you say,  but to me it looks like just another way to push women into  having therapy instead of going  by the obvious vasometer symptoms and prescribing hrt. I get so fed up with women being unable to access what they need, and from speaking to others l understand its still an issue. I also fear CBT will now be suggested in the same way that antidepressants used to be prescribed as a solution  to menopausal symptoms, instead of offering hrt! I just hope l'm wrong.

[Donna-paul]

I totally agree hrt should be the first line of treatment for peri/menopause. But I do think it’s good for those of us who can no longer take hrt need some support/treatment. The worry is MH in this country is not good and waiting lists are so long so how that will work who knows.

[CLKD]

Have copied from my thread ;-) so that we stick to the same.

I started by :    

some1 needs their head putting down a loo and the flush pulling .......... which bit of hormonal upheaval don't these 'experts' get 

Headlines in the Daily Telegraph.  Victoria Atkins - new to the post of Health secretary by 3 days? 'the guidance would help women strolling with symptoms to "go back to living their lives to the full" '   She'd know then.   

I know that the NHS is short of funds: but NICE should know better than support/suggest something that has no clnical background or Research.  Dr Newson is 'disappointed'.  Personally I am APPALLED 
 



Dotty: There’s no way that talking therapies would have helped my symptoms! I find the suggestion quite patronising.



That's a good way of looking at it.  Hurdity has started another thread elsewhere 

from Hurdity:
CLKD - sorry - I did not see your post here because it's in "Other Health Discussion" rather than the main menopause section, and it's about menopause! I rarely look at this section, and possibly others don't look so much here either. Hopefully some sort of discussion will occur somewhere!

Hurdity x


Diamonds and Pearls. Hi CLKD, sorry l missed this, l've replied on Hurditys thread, but 100% agree with you. l am also appalled as we are going backwards here! I fear this will mean more delaying tactics in actually  prescribing women the treatment they need and deserve. I despair!

[Kathleen]

Hello ladies.

A friend of mine was recently offered CBT and was told that the wait for a face to face consultation ( meaning via Zoom) would be eight months and a phone consultation would be five months. I can understand counselling being offered in addition to HRT but obviously it should not be instead of it.
I wonder if this is a cost saving/ budget moving exercise? It certainly doesn't make much sense at the moment.

Take care ladies.


K.

[Taz2]

It was the Five Live phone-in topic yesterday morning. It was interesting to hear different reactions. Louise Newson was one of the contributors. I don't think you can Listen Again on 5 which is a shame.

Taz x

[Kathleen]

Hello again ladies.

I didn't hear the phone in but I am a patient of Louise Newson's clinic.  I have decided to ask my GP to take over my HRT etc because I no longer want to pay the large sums of money to the clinic but also because I don't think the care available was worth the cost.

I have seen three different GPs at the clinic and their advice was always that the more Oestrogen I used the better, don't worry about any bleeding or breast pain, use as little Progesterone as possible and add in Testosterone as soon as I can. I applied all of the above but unfortunately I still had problems  I am hoping that my GP will have a more nuanced approach!

I mention all this because although talking therapy will not supply missing hormones, other treatments can help when replacing those hormones doesn't  help very much or causes other problems.

I think various strategies should be explored when treating the menopause because, as we know, one size doesn't fit all.

Take care ladies.

K.

[SarahT]

I was initially horrified about this, as like many of a I was worried it may be a bit patronising, in that after my early days being hit by peri, I felt I was at fault for not being able to cope with ( what one nhs site states as ) a ' normal part ' of women's health. Nothing bloody normal about how some of a genuinely go through. So I am concerned CBT would be seen as a cop out in some respects.

But, after struggling with exceptionally scary cyclical mood swings this year, as well as hrt, and AD, I went on the nhs waiting list for talking therapy as I was so scared and anxious as to how bad my moods were. It was a five month wait, but the talking therapy ( differs a bit from CBT) has helped me feel stronger. So a mix of medications and MH therapy has helped me.

But I am still fearful that CBT will be seen as a single support as opposed to being used in conjunction with using hrt or whatever methods help any individual, so that women are ensured   a fuller choice of any of all options as opposed to only a single choice.

[CLKD]

Talking therapy is totally different to CBT - I've done both, the former enabled me.  CBT was wasted.

[SarahT]

I agree, CBT for me was not helpful on a previous occasion. Talking therapy has made a difference for me regarding the anxiety brought on by peri, and feeling overwhelmed with what has in effect been a truly horrendous year for me.

As I say, I am worried some of the helpful parts of supporting hormonal symptoms may be disregarded in favour of CBT. I believe this may help some women..... But all available help should be discussed and offered.

[CLKD]

Medication should be offered first!  How can CBT ease what is basically a hormonal issue?  An issue that can happen suddenly ........ is embarrassing. 

[SarahT]

I agree. As I say, I am on medication for hormonal symptoms. CBT alone would have been useless if  offered without medication as well,  and in the case of women like me whose mental health has been affected.so seriously by peri or meno, CBT on its own would have been extremely dangerous.
My own cyclical moods made me suicidal, and I know I am not the only one. a full range of medical treatment as well as any form of mental health support should be offered as a package, tailored to individuals. CBT can help some with techniques  to cope with the affect of symptoms, but I can't see how that can alleviate actual physical symptoms.

I find the thought of offering CBT on its own belittleng. Hrt can be successful for many.... But maybe CBT may be an additional help because of course, some women chose not to go down the medical route at all.

[VioletAquarius]

I cannot understand how cbt can help, it can't, not on it's own anyway, as it's hormonal.
Used alongside with hrt yes, but not instead of.