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Menopause Matters magazine ISSUE 81 out now. (Autumn issue, September 2025)

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Author Topic: Desperate for help with VA  (Read 12671 times)

Kirsti

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Desperate for help with VA
« on: July 24, 2023, 01:08:17 PM »

Hi
Haven't been on for a while as I had been coping a bit better with my VA and possible IC. However things have got significantly worse. I was experiencing more pain and discomfort than I had been then I got Covid 19 and now I am in agony. I am using Vagifem daily and have been since January this year, taking supplements, using coconut oil every day up there along with Yes Ob, I am also on estrogel and Utrogestan, I've started to use ovestin aswell and I have never been in so much pain and discomfort in my life. I just don't understand why nothing is working, anyone have any ideas. Has anyone tried the estring for estrogen as I wonder if the fillers in vagifem are a problem for me now? Any help or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks Kirsti
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Joaniepat

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Re: Desperate for help with VA
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2023, 01:26:27 PM »

You could try dropping the coconut oil, I don't think it is pH matched to the vagina, and maybe, as it's an oil, is interfering with the absorption of the Vagifem.
JP x
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Kirsti

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Re: Desperate for help with VA
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2023, 01:36:58 PM »

Hi Joaniepat

Thank you, maybe I am over doing it. I'm just at my wits end and don't understand why it isn't getting any better after 7 months. I'm concerned that Covid has had am impact too. I also suffer from dry mouth and my eyes are now getting very dry too 😓

Kirsti x
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CLKD

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Re: Desperate for help with VA
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2023, 01:39:36 PM »

The body may become dry as oestrogen levels drop off.

Go back to basics with the vaginal treatment: 1 Vagifem now and another this evening.  Again tomorrow then back to every night.  Also take pain relief: when I get the need2P symptoms I swallow 2 Nurofen 3 times a day to ease the nip as the urine flow stops.

Gently apply the 'ovestin' around the outer labia every night and in the day if it feels dry.  Drop the other products or you won't know what is working/not.

What type of underwear and if you use pads, stop as these can have a drying effect.  Go without knickers ;-).

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Wrensong

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Re: Desperate for help with VA
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2023, 01:55:01 PM »

Hi Kirsti
Quote
I also suffer from dry mouth and my eyes are now getting very dry too
Two thoughts - have you been tested for Sjogren's if your dryness is systemic?  Also, there is some thought in the medical literature that in some women systemic dryness at menopause can be related to androgen deficiency, (especially in women without ovaries).  You don't mention Testosterone as part of your HRT so I wonder whether you might want to consider asking for this to be prescribed.  I find it helpful for dry mouth, eyes & GU tract etc & indeed it is sometimes mentioned as helpful for GSM.  It's usually only prescribed for low libido/sexual dysfunction though, so you might have to bear that in mind if you want to ask for some on trial.
Wx
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Kirsti

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Re: Desperate for help with VA
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2023, 02:17:44 PM »

Thanks CLKD, yes that is probably worth a try, you are right I really don't know what is and isn't helping anymore.
I will try just using vagifem and ovestin to see if that helps. I'm wearing cotton underwear but have been wearing a pad because of all the oil I'm putting up there! Thanks for your advice, I will feedback :-)
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Kirsti

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Re: Desperate for help with VA
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2023, 02:22:05 PM »

Thanks Wrensong, I have had a blood test to check for any auto immune deficiency and it came back negative. However my GP surgery is so awful at the moment that I just don't trust them at all, I have taken out private health so I may ask for an appointment with them to ask for another test as I do have all the symptoms of Sjorgens. I haven't been offered testosterone so maybe I should look into that. So is it the testosterone that you think helps with your mouth etc as opposed to the estrogen? I went on systemic hrt to help with the dry mouth and it has improved it slightly but I do still suffer. Then my VA just went into overdrive :-(
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Wrensong

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Re: Desperate for help with VA
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2023, 04:00:29 PM »

Kirsti, the relationship between androgens, oestrogen & systemic dryness seems to be complicated & from everything I've read the bottom line seems to be, as so often with women's health issues, that more research is needed.  There are some interesting articles suggesting that androgens are important for the health of mucous membranes & glands involved in lubrication, as well as muscle function in the pelvic floor & of course sexual function, but it seems to be the balance between oestrogen & androgens that may be the key to optimal function of the regulatory systems involved.  To complicate matters further, there's some evidence that genetics also determine how individuals respond to oestrogen & androgens in this respect.  It's pretty mind boggling but interesting if you are scientifically minded.

I've had a quick trawl through several bookmarked articles this afternoon but they are lengthy & complicated & I don't have time today to read them in full to refresh my memory, in order to say anything with much certainty or copy out relevant sections, but there are some links below you may like to look at at some point that may help you decide whether testosterone may be an avenue worth pursuing.

Yes, the most obvious improvement in my systemic dryness from supplementing with testosterone post-oophorectomy has been in the mouth.  The dryness (all over) got markedly worse after losing ovaries, a major source of T production & I asked for a trial of T partly because Ophthalmology were getting more concerned about the worsening dry eye syndrome which was a worry, as well as being very uncomfortable & I suspected the reduction in androgens was responsible.  I remembered years before BSO on first starting HRT with Evorel Conti containing the androgenic progestogen Norethisterone, that within days I'd noticed a marked increase in production of saliva.  At that age I hadn't even realised my mouth was especially dry & was very surprised at this unexpected effect of HRT.  When I went back on HRT a year after BSO it wasn't an androgenic regimen & my dryness didn't improve as much as I'd hoped so that's when I asked to start T & it has definitely made a positive difference.  No guarantees, but it just might be the missing ingredient for you.

If you've had a full autoimmune screen that's good.  Mine was also negative, yet the Sjogren's specialist Rheumatologist I saw still strongly suspected I had Sjogren's & wanted to do the gold standard diagnostic salivary gland biopsy because bloods aren't always reliable for Sjogren's.  So if you are concerned this might be the cause of your dryness I think, as you say, it would be wise to get specialist opinion.

Anyway, here are some links & sorry I haven't had time today to pull out some meat for you & that some will seem similar, but if you like detail it might repay reading them closely if/when you have time.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2050052120300330

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2050052118300465

https://www.reviewofophthalmology.com/article/hormones-in-dry-eye-a-delicate-balance

https://www.healio.com/news/ophthalmology/20120331/gender-and-androgen-imbalances-are-keys-to-dry-eye

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/cxo.12147

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-may-31-he-42741-story.html

Please PM me if you want more detail of my history.
Wx

P.S. forgot to say have you looked into Intrarosa/Prasterone (vaginal DHEA) for the VA?  Probably a couple of years since I read up on it so I'm not up to date with any new developments, but if I remember rightly the thing that put me off was mention of a possible link to abnormal cervical smears.  Don't quote me on that though, as my memory is not that reliable  ::) so it'd be worth looking into for yourself.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2023, 09:11:09 PM by Wrensong »
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Wrensong

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Re: Desperate for help with VA
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2023, 04:51:52 PM »

Crumbs, head all over the place today!  I also meant to say I agree with the other ladies on giving the non prescription products a rest & second what Joaniepat says (who is very knowledgeable on VVA/GSM amongst other things) about the effect of oil based vaginal products possibly making matters worse via a barrier effect preventing absorption of Vagifem.  I use Vagifem & the weaker Estriol cream (0.01%) on the vulva & find Yes OB & VM both irritant, but I do use Yes WB & like Sylk best of all.

I also have IC.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2023, 04:53:42 PM by Wrensong »
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Kirsti

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Re: Desperate for help with VA
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2023, 05:44:49 PM »

Hi Wrensong
Thank you so so much for all your advice. I am sending a virtual hug x
I will have a look at the links you sent this evening. It does sound very complicated but interesting.
To start with i will lay off the oil as suggested and stick with the vagifem and ibuprofen to see how I go. I do think the oils irritate me, I have very sensitive skin so am assuming I am extra sensitive there too. I have been making pessaries from coconut oil but maybe it is a bit too much!
The testosterone does interest me so I will look into that a bit more.
Sounds like you have been through rough times, I'm sorry to hear that. So kind of you to take the time to give advice. I will let you know how I get on. Xxx
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Wrensong

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Re: Desperate for help with VA
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2023, 09:05:53 PM »

It's a pleasure Kirsti & only what we're all here for.  I find it all fascinating & have felt compelled to learn as much as I can as what happens to women at this stage of life & beyond seems woefully under-researched.  The fact that we all have different experiences & there's quite a lot of us here  :) means there's a good chance something someone knows will be useful to someone else!

I think you're wise to simplify what you're using for now & with any luck that alone might be all you need.  I hope you manage to make progress whatever steps you take & would love to hear that you do.  Hug back to you  :hug:
Wx
« Last Edit: July 24, 2023, 09:08:38 PM by Wrensong »
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JenJab

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Re: Desperate for help with VA
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2023, 03:20:18 AM »

Hi Kirsti  sorry to hear you are in so much pain.   I found too little or too much vagifem, estrodot or prometrium would cause a lot of pain so finally found a balance right for my body (way too much pain without them but a lot of pain if the levels were off for me).  Took a long time to find a dosage that seems to work for me most of the time.  Vagifem, estrodot and prometrium combination worked to a point for pain but still felt like I was walking around with a bladder infection.  Gyno recommended testosterone for sexual drive (haha sex right but there is no sex with the pain anyway so thought why not) and found 1/2 dose of recommended Testosterone creme Androfeme helped with the last remaining bladder/vaginal pain (no idea why and my doctors said no idea but as soon as I come off it the last major pain returns ..whatever works I feel)  Also found some bladder/lower back/anal pain was due to really overtight pelvic floor muscles (they just keep tightening up way too much and never releasing maybe due surgeries/pain anyway I found working on relaxing those each days works and using a pelvic wand helps like any tight muscles.  Also use a foam roller etc for my other muscles since I turned 40 so I guess pelvic floor muscles are just more muscles that can also cause a bit of pain.  Good luck with everything and hope you find a solution soon XX
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Kirsti

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Re: Desperate for help with VA
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2023, 08:07:36 AM »

Thanks Wrensong, I will keep you updated. I agree the best help I have found has been on this forum, as you say we are all so different so it is a case of finding what works for each of us. I feel much better in myself today after your support and the other people that have responded so thanks again  :) Kirsti xxx
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Kirsti

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Re: Desperate for help with VA
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2023, 08:23:47 AM »

Hi JenJab
Thank you for responding. That info is really helpful, I do wonder every now and then if there is too much vagifem and it is irritating, I have left it a couple of times and felt a little better so maybe I do just need to find my level.
I am very interested in trying testosterone as I think it may help, I am going to look into this and report back.
Thanks very much for all your help.
Kirsti xxx
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Kirsti

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Re: Desperate for help with VA
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2023, 11:23:02 AM »

Hi

Little update, still no comfort I'm afraid so not there yet. However I have done a blood test to check my testosterone levels so am waiting for the results of that, if low hopefully I can order some online and try that.
I know I need to call my doctor for an appointment but can't quite bring myself to try and wraggle with the receptionists for an appointment at the mo! I need to go and collect a prescription next week so might try then though!
What I was wondering is what systemic HRT do you guys use? I am on Oestrogel and I am not convinced that this isn't part of my problem, I have come across some reviews that say they have experienced vaginal burning whilst using this, I can't quite get it out of my head and am wondering if I should maybe try Sandrena gel instead. I can't seem to find many reviews that talk about the burning related to oestrogel but this did all start 1 month after I strarted taking it. The problem is that was the same time I moved from Vagifem to Vagirux so it is really hard to tell. I am currently buying Vagifem privately as they had been working fine for 3 years!
I have used some ovestin on outer areas and that seemed to make matters worse, so I am currently just sticking to the coconut oil.
I did forget to mention that I have been diagnosed with IC/Painful Bladder Syndrome as well and am currently having Instillations for these, I have had 3 treatments so far, no benefits so far, if anything more discomfort. Anyone have any experience of these?
Anyway, got that all off my chest and out there  :) Hopefully the testosterone blood test results will come through soon.
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