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[Ann B]

Thanks Flossieteacake and CLKD

Having read about the benefits, I am feeling quite positive that this could be the solution I have been looking for.

I find that the Ovestin cream is not as messy as I had anticipated.  You are right CLKD if Ovestin remains a positive experience, why switch?

I am interested to know what dosing you are comfortable with, and whether you had initial irritation.  The irritation is not that bad, just something new that I didn't have before.  I don't want to add any undue complexity or substances, but should I use Sylk or similar now, or wait and trust things will settle down?

It all seems fairly straightforward, but I would be happy to have any tips regarding sterilising the applicator or whatever.  Considering previous UTI-type symptoms, I have a thing about the applicator being as sterile as possible. 

Ann

[CLKD]

I have been using 'ovestin' for several years without problems.  The applicator can be cleaned in warm soapy water using a baby bottle brush, 10 at a time obtained from Amazon.  The brush in turn gets washed under hot water.  Do U have a plastic box with a lid, in which to put applicator and brush in?

Initially it was the 2 weeks loading then every 3rd and 6/7th nights.  When I feel the symptoms niggling I put a dose up in the afternoon, take 2 nurofen to ease the nip as the urine flow shuts off and another dose in the evening: for 5-6 days.

I've never experienced any irritation internally, any drying on the vulva/labial area is treated with a smear of 'ovestin' or KY Jelly.  If the skin is thin then the applicator may cause the body to be aware of insertion, once the vaginal walls begin to plump up, any irritation should ease.

[Ann B]

Thanks CLKD

All good information and tips.

The Amazon baby bottle brush is a good idea.

Ann

[suzysunday]

Yes great idea.  I am going to look for some online now.

[Wrensong]

Ann B, I've only just caught up with this thread today.  I'm sorry about the UTI, but so glad to know you've been able to make a decision about the treatment.  Having earlier this year been without vaginal oestrogen for 8 weeks (contraindicated post-hysterectomy) & developed urinary retention after routine catheterisation & a persistent UTI requiring multiple courses of antibiotics, it's a situation I never want to be in again.

Fab tip from CLKD about the bottle brushes  .

I think & hope you'll feel much better for the vaginal oestrogen in time.  Do let us know how you get on.

Well done on taking the plunge.  It takes some guts in this situation.
Wx

[Decogirl50]

At 73 and after using vagifem successfully for 4 years now terrible symptoms of VA it regularly and symptoms like uti Dr said had overactive bladder, but used more vagifem and it has got a little better, am seeing  Dr soon after reading Dr Louise Newsomes book am going to ask for ovestin cream some oestrogen gel, and more vagifem, failing that Dr Newsome has clinics in London Bournmouth and I think Birmingham, she tailors treatment for you, and yes she thinks you can have topical hrt after cancer.

[Ann B]

Hi Wrensong  and Decogirl50.

Thanks for your replies.

I held off reporting back until a little time had passed and I could gauge how my tissues were responding to the V.E.

I commenced with two weeks loading of Ovestin 0.5g per day.  All went well.  I followed CLKDs advice with the brush for cleaning the applicator.  I found the brush for straw cleaning was the best fit.

I noticed during loading that my nipples became a little tender for a brief period, but my hot flushes continued, so obviously not too much systemically.

After the loading period and for convenience, I decided to try the Vagifem pessaries twice per week, and have been using them for the last 4 weeks.  They are so much easier, and no concerns with applicator hygiene. 

In addition and with the same frequency, I have been applying a tiny dab of Ovestin to the fourchette, because I had repeated tears there.

Thus far I have been really pleased with my feeling of vaginal comfort.  I also obtained Sylk gel, but have not used it.

My nipple sensitivity stopped after the Ovestin loading period, but I have noticed that my hot flushes have very recently ceased.  This worries me slightly because it could be indicative of some systemic oestrogen circulation.

For ease of use, I prefer the Vagifem, but in view of the hot flushes ceasing, (could be coincidental) I am now wondering if I should switch back to the weaker Ovestin.  I have just been giving thought to this today.

Most positively, and one of the main reasons I considered taking the V.E, urine dipstick testing has been showing no leucocytes in my urine over the past week.  This is a first.  I have had very high levels of leucocytes for about 2 years.  They would abate briefly following antibiotics, but then return.  I am keeping my fingers crossed that they and UTIs will not return.

I would add that I am also taking a daily quality probiotic and cranberry capsule, so I may be muddying the water a little as to which is doing the trick. 

Ann x

[Wrensong]

Ann, thank you for the detailed update  .

Most positively, and one of the main reasons I considered taking the V.E, urine dipstick testing has been showing no leucocytes in my urine over the past week.  This is a first.  I have had very high levels of leucocytes for about 2 years.  They would abate briefly following antibiotics, but then return.  I am keeping my fingers crossed that they and UTIs will not return.

This is so good to know  . 

I've also recently been trialling a new probiotic from a well respected manufacturer, marketed for women's GU health, but I'm watching for any possible worsening of bladder symptoms as there seems to be some thought that with IC, probiotics & fermented foods may aggravate the condition in some cases.

I hear you on your concern re a possible correlation between the stronger oestrogen product & the cessation of your flushes.  I wonder whether this may be due to the initial systemic absorption we talked about, that's said only to occur to any significant degree until vaginal tissue integrity improves enough to form something of a barrier, but I understand why you're considering swapping back to Ovestin.

Please let us know how things go & I hope you will continue to feel better for the vaginal oestrogen.
Wx

[Wrensong]

Hi Decogirl50  .  I hope it goes well with the GP.  Please let us know how you get on.
Wx

[Ann B]

Good morning Wrensong

Thanks again for your reply.

You are probably correct about the loading period affecting the flushes.  I have had a few since my last reply, so my tissues are probably improving.  My breasts are not tender, which is a useful indicator.  I have, therefore, decided to continue with the Vagifem for the moment.

The good news is that urine dipstick testing continues to show a complete absence of leucocytes, which is great.

I hope you get on with the new probiotic.  I don't know if it is the probiotic or the cranberry pill, or the combination, but I have had quite a bit of abdominal pain and irritation over the past 3 days.   I started a different cranberry pill around the same time, so that may be the culprit.  I am going to exclude both of them for a few days then reintroduce them individually to determine which one may be having this effect.

I tend to experience fairly frequent intermittent abdominal pain, so neither of them may be responsible.  I have been told by the GP (without any tests) that I probably have IBS.  I know from an mri that I have diverticula in the sigmoid colon area, and that is where I feel the sharpest pain.

I have read that kefir is a good gut healer.  I culture it, but then end up pouring it down the sink, because I find it can be constipating.  I will have to try it again.

Decogirl50, I hope your VA symptoms have improved.

BW

Ann x

[Jules]

Ann, I initially had symptoms when I started using vagifem.  Some pelvic pain, then I had slight blood spotting so I stopped on gp advice.  I then started again after US showed everything was ok, because I was having UTI symptoms.  The second time I got breast pain. I stuck with it as sex was becoming painful. That's a year ago and I have no side effects at all and i use every other night, I'm also now using ovestin externally every night.  I still have my night hot flushes though. I may try to swap my ovestin to the weaker one mentioned.

[Ann B]

Hi Jules

Thanks for relating your experience with the Vagifem.  You are obviously getting the benefits.

I am currently taking 2 Vagifem pessaries per week, plus a pea size dab of Ovestin on the fourchette,  After just 7 weeks ie, 2 weeks of Ovestin loading, then 5 weeks of Vagifem, I too feel the benefits.  However, my hot flushes are still behaving differently.  They are considerably less.  In the past 2 weeks, I have also experienced a more bloated and distended feeling across my lower abdomen, with a sharpish pain around my sigmoid colon ie in the lower left quadrant.  Was this like the pelvic pain you experienced?  I wonder if anyone else has experienced this with Vagifem.  Hopefully, others will comment.   It could, however, be unconnected because I do frequently experience general discomfort in this area, although not quite so severe as it has been in the past few weeks.

Apparently, there have been repeated calls to rewrite the leaflets that accompany vaginal oestrogens because they are more related to systemic oestrogen side effects, and even then they have been criticised as being out of date.  We therefore have to look for anecdotal experiences.

I can't really complain about my experience with Vagifem thus far.  It is good that you no longer have any side effects. 

Best wishes

Ann

[Jules]

Hi Jules

Thanks for relating your experience with the Vagifem.  You are obviously getting the benefits.

I am currently taking 2 Vagifem pessaries per week, plus a pea size dab of Ovestin on the fourchette,  After just 7 weeks ie, 2 weeks of Ovestin loading, then 5 weeks of Vagifem, I too feel the benefits.  However, my hot flushes are still behaving differently.  They are considerably less.  In the past 2 weeks, I have also experienced a more bloated and distended feeling across my lower abdomen, with a sharpish pain around my sigmoid colon ie in the lower left quadrant.  Was this like the pelvic pain you experienced?  I wonder if anyone else has experienced this with Vagifem.  Hopefully, others will comment.   It could, however, be unconnected because I do frequently experience general discomfort in this area, although not quite so severe as it has been in the past few weeks.

Apparently, there have been repeated calls to rewrite the leaflets that accompany vaginal oestrogens because they are more related to systemic oestrogen side effects, and even then they have been criticised as being out of date.  We therefore have to look for anecdotal experiences.

I can't really complain about my experience with Vagifem thus far.  It is good that you no longer have any side effects. 

Best wishes

Ann

No my pelvic pain was like period pain. Your other sounds like IBS related, spasm in your colon. It's hard to decipher the aches and pains of getting older isn't it

[Wrensong]

Another reassuring article, this time on vaginal estriol & serum hormone levels.  So, relevant for Ovestin, Estriol 0.01% cream, Blissel, rather than the oestradiol in Vagifem & Estring.

https://www.informahealthcare.com/doi/full/10.1080/13697137.2023.2287624?src=recsys


Don't think I've posted this one here before.  Hope not!
Wx

[Ann B]

Thanks, Wrensong for posting that positive study regarding E3 oestrogens.

Due to the ease of use and better hygiene of the disposable applicators, I opted for Vagifem, an E2.  It is approximately 4 months and so far, the Vagifem has worked well for me.  The primary issue of high-level leucocytes in my urine has completely ceased.  I also have had no UTIs or vaginal discomfort.

There is some mention of E2 oestrogens in the study which I will have to read closely.

Best wishes

Ann