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[AngelaH]

Just wondering 
Ladies, who think they need testosterone to be added to their HRT, may I ask you  why do you  think your body needs it? What kind of signs your body is sending to you? Any symptoms? I believe probably I need it as well. 

[sheila99]

Absent libido and muscle weakness

[Penguin]

Sheila99 would absent libido be an indicator on its own, or would it have to include muscle weakness? I have the former but not the latter and really wamt my libido back!

[SarahT]

Am interested in this answer too.... My libido has plummeted and I just took the option of an AD that had possible  side affects of Wight gain over another that was likely to crash libido even further. My to never seems interested when I mention my extremely low sex drive.

[Emzib0b]

Zero libido, fatigue, brain fog, feeling flat/loss of drive/zest etc, but in a different way to depression.

[sheila99]

Sheila99 would absent libido be an indicator on its own, or would it have to include muscle weakness? I have the former but not the latter and really wamt my libido back!

Not everyone has muscle weakness but I'm fairly sure everyone has low/no libido. It's the only symptom the nhs are interested it, you often can't get it for anything else.

[SarahT]

Why don't gps listen when we mention this? Is it because it is simpler for them to work on other symptoms?

[Penguin]

Thanks Sheila99, so worth me mentioning to the GP then. I hadn't realised testosterone was good for that.

[Kathleen]

Hello ladies.

Many ladies on the forum have found that the only way to have testosterone prescribed is by complaining about low libido, other benefits  are not recognised by GPs it seems. 

I am not sure about other private clinics but I am with Newson Health and they were happy to add in testosterone.  However my oestrogen levels needed to be raised first otherwise the body converts testosterone into oestrogen and the added value is lost.

I must say that I gave up on testosterone a while ago but I was very post meno when I began HRT so perhaps that is why it wasn't effective for me.

Take care ladies.

K.

[Hurdity]

My view is that a declining libido and specifically the desired response ( ) would be the first sign of decreasing testosterone, and the more it decreases, the other symptoms would come into play - though don't think I have read evdiecne for that, but is logical.

That being said, if you take certain anti-depressants ( SSRI's I think but would need to check which), or take oral HRT then this can also cause decreased libido/response for various reasons, and of course I am sure other meds may have similar effect as well as psychological factors. But if you're ruled out all of those, and libido has gone or is going out of the window and your tissues are nicely plumped to avoid dryness and discomfort - then chances are you will benefit from testosterone.

Blood tests are inaccurate for women though might be good to get a baseline especially of the compound SHBG before you start.

If you've got a great libido but muscle weakness then I would look for another cause.

Kathleen - I am interested in your comment "However my oestrogen levels needed to be raised first otherwise the body converts testosterone into oestrogen and the added value is lost." because others have said this, but I've not found any evidence for it so would be great if you could point me to a study or something? I'm a bit out of date with the literature so mostly only going by what's in my head that over read over the years! It is on the same metabolic pathway but it's the evidence of what actually happens in the body in practice under these circumstances (ie addition of T when oestrogen is low) that I'm interested in.

Hurdity x

[Kathleen]

Hello again ladies.

Hurdity - Sadly I don't have any research papers to point you towards but I was told about the testosterone/oestrogen interaction by a doctor from Newson Health. The doctor explained that the conversion from testosterone to oestrogen was the reason why oestrogen levels needed to reach a certain level before T could be added.

I am not science minded but I wondered if   some women don't need to supplement with oestrogen during the menopause because they are efficient at converting their natural testosterone instead?   There are likely many reasons that some women suffer so much more than others and this mechanism may be one of the differences that explains it.

Sorry I can't be more helpful but perhaps one of the Menopause clinics could tell you where this information came from.

Wishing you well and take.

K.

[AngelaH]

I am interested in your comment "However my oestrogen levels needed to be raised first otherwise the body converts testosterone into oestrogen and the added value is lost." because others have said this, but I've not found any evidence for it so would be great if you could point me to a study or something? I

testosterone is indeed present in women, produced primarily in their ovaries and adrenal glands. Although testosterone can be converted to estradiol, the reverse does not happen. Testosterone, however, is not the main androgen (hormones that promote male characteristics) in women. Instead, dehydroepiandrosterone-sulfate (DHEA-S), dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), and androstenedione are the more common androgens in women
https://www.americanscientist.org/article/testosterone-in-women

And here as well:

All estrogenic steroids are synthesized in vivo from testosterone or related androgens in a reaction catalyzed by aromatase. Aromatase expressing cells in the brain convert circulating testosterone into estrogen, and it is this local estrogen that is thought to control dimorphic behaviors in males
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2851224/#:~:text=Male%20behaviors%20require%20both%20testosterone,estrogen%20to%20the%20male%20brain.

Is this what are you looking for? 

[Gnatty]

That's very interesting re DHEA. Would we be better off taking DHEA then, as well as Testosterone do you think?

[AngelaH]

Thank you very much to everyone, who replied to me. So it is absent/low libido is the main sing of low testosterone and the main reason to make a decision for GP to prescribe it to a woman . Well, to be honest I see HRT as a treatment for “pathological” menopause, because “nonpathological” menopause (which most of women have) is natural thing and doesn’t require HRT at all. It is natural to have absent/low libido, when woman reaches certain age and sex hormones don’t play the main role in her life any more, so why it should be treated?

My HRT doesn’t work for me and I am trying to think why. Just pump oestrogen to my body makes me much worse than without pumping it. I was born as a hairy girl, I mean all my life I have to fight with my hair over my whole body, even in parts, where ladies normally don’t have hair at all.  But apart from that I never had problems, my periods were normal, I didn’t have a problem to conceive and give a birth, I am a normal lady, just more hairy, than others  . But now I have noticed that my usual hair on my lags, for example,  started growing more slowly than before, in some parts of my body it disappeared at all.  Now I look  like a normal lady   But I feel rubbish  This is why I think now about testosterone, I think I was born with much higher level of it, than lady needs and the problem is now really low level of testosterone as well in my body? 

[AngelaH]

That's very interesting re DHEA. Would we be better off taking DHEA then, as well as Testosterone do you think?

Who knows, probably we will have an answer in the next century.