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[Ermin2trude]

Hello ladies.

I have enjoyed reading this thread and the varying experiences with progesterone are very interesting.

Years ago I read an article about a woman who was having a terrible time but was helped by HRT. She was told that progesterone was the calming hormone which confused me as I understood that Oestrogen was infact the calming hormone.  Perhaps for her, she needed more Progesterone to feel well.

In all the time I have been using HRT the focus has been on Oestrogen rather than progesterone. I have always had to take them together as I have a womb and was three years post meno when I started HRT.

I am also a patient of Newson Health and the two doctors I have seen have emphasized the need for maximum oestrogen and minimal progesterone. I have never had great success with HRT and I have often wondered if I need more prog not less. This has never been suggested by NH. I have never experienced bad PMT or PMDD and I felt great during both my pregnancies.

At a  recent appointment with an NHS Consultant it was suggested that I double my use of Cyclogest pessaries. This is to protect the womb lining but perhaps it will help to balance my hormones and stabilise my mood swings. Unfortunately I cannot increase Cyclogest until my next NH appointment next month.  I am obviously worried that my mood could worsen but more prog could be the one thing that helps and it is something that I haven't tried before.

I completely understand how scary it is to keep changing HRT  and there is always the worry of feeling worse. However the desire to feel normal again is a powerful incentive!

Take care ladies and wishing you all well.

K.

Hi Kathleen,

It’s true that Progesterone is the calming hormone. It acts as a natural antidepressant, enhances mood and relieves anxiety. It also has a calming effect on the brain because it stimulates the brain's GABA receptors, the feel-good, calming neurotransmitters which help with maintaining sleep.

Progesterone is often the first hormone to drop during peri menopause and that can cause symptoms such as insomnia, changes in the menstrual cycle, hot flashes, night sweats, palpitations and fatigue, anxiety, insomnia, agitation, being really irritable, acne. abdominal pain, breast tenderness, spotting between periods, vaginal dryness, depression/mood swings, low libido, low blood sugar and headaches or migraines.

I had all of the above. Buckets of it.

It makes me sad that GP’s etc reach for oestrogen first because we are all so different. Oestrogen works brilliantly for many, but not everyone. In my case, increasing oestrogen and not progesterone made my body crave progesterone more and more and the anxiety, depression, migraines etc etc increased. I’m very lucky that both the doctors I saw at NH recognised my need for progesterone and not oestrogen, although I haven’t the courage to ditch my patches yet. I’m in a happy place and if it isn’t broken……

I hope you find that happy balance too.

Ermin

[Kathleen]

Hello again Ermin2trude

I makes me both happy and sad to read your comments ( mood swing lol? ).

Everyone says that Oestrogen is the calming hormone and the article I read years ago was the only time that progesterone was said to have that effect.  No medical person that I have spoken to, and I've spoken to many over the years, has ever suggested increasing my progesterone. Quite the opposite infact and when large doses of Oestrogen haven't helped these people just shake their heads. This includes Newson Health doctors so you were fortunate to find two who had more knowledge and experience.

I have a Newson Health appointment next month with yet another doctor and I will ask about increasing my Progesterone. I have nothing to lose as my emotional issues are dominating my life and making me fearful of the future.

Wishing you well and take care.

K.

[Keep On Swimming]

Good morning,

This is SUCH an interesting thread. Thank you Ermin2trude for sharing your experience - such an eye opener. It's great that you found a solution and that you feel well!

@ lilbebel, what you're going through is just terrible - I really hope that increasing your progesterone works for you too. How are you doing today? Fingers crossed you are doing so much better.

It makes me so angry that in certain countries women aren't given the right HRT care. I luckily managed to find a gyne here in France who has given me HRT but only because I went back to her with printed evidence that peri women in the UK get HRT.

Have a great (or as good as possible!) day everyone.
xxx

[Ruralrach]

Morning ladies,just wondering if anyones stopped their hrt altogether.ive recentlt tried Provera and Lutigest both of which had side effects which were worse than Utrogestan which affects my mood.im trialling reducing my Oestrogel from 4 down to 3 then 2 pumps but i still have to take progesterone.So do i just cut down until i dont take anyrthing?im 18 months post menopause and wondering if i can manage without it?anyone else stopped?

[Mary G]

As others have said, this is an interesting thread.

Ermin2trude, what type of migraines do you have?   Are they with or without aura?

It took me a very long time but I eventually discovered that my silent migraines (aura but no pain) kicked off when my progesterone tanked aged 43.  I don't think I ever had high levels of progesterone but they protected me from migraine auras for 31 years.   Migraines with auras are usually caused by oestrogen spikes but migraines without aura are usually caused by low oestrogen levels.  Decent levels of progesterone iron out any spikes.

I think most of us need a steady flow of oestrogen, progesterone and testosterone post menopause although some women are severely progesterone intolerant to the point where they literally can't take it at all.

So really it's about finding which category you fit into and tweaking until you get the right dose of each hormone.

Quite a few MM members have had good results with progesterone on the Alternative Therapies section.

[Ermin2trude]

Hi Mary G,

My migraines were 6 day long ones with aura. I know….6 days…..3 days on my left side followed immediately by 3 days on the right. They always happened during my menstrual period when progesterone was at its lowest. Other symptoms such as severe bloating, PMS, very low mood and very heavy periods etc are also down to low progesterone levels.

When peri menopause hit and the little progesterone I naturally had finally left the building….and alas it is the first hormone to decline in peri….leading to the night sweats, flushes etc for everyone, well that has been impossible.

You are so right, it’s definitely about finding which hormone category you fit into and getting that balance. I’ve read on this forum somewhere that there is myth surrounding oestrogen dominance, but the symptoms of oestrogen dominance are so similar to symptoms of low progesterone, that maybe a balance for some ladies is to be found by increasing progesterone, or lowering oestrogen. Increasing my oestrogen and not progesterone sent me to a very bad place. I have now decreased the oestrogen and increased the progesterone thanks to the Doctors at Newson Health, and am a fully functioning member of society again…….with no more migraines!

I shall look into progesterone on the Alternative Therapies section. Thank you for pointing me in that direction.

[Mary G]

Thanks Ermin2trude, I had a feeling you would say you have the oestrogen induced migraines with aura.   As you rightly say, progesterone goes west first leaving you with no protection against oestrogen spikes.   Progesterone is a calming, hormone stabiliser which aids sleep.

Oestrogen dominance very definitely does exist but perhaps a better description would be "oestrogen spikes".   It has literally taken me years to get there but the oestrogen spikes and generic hormonal instability triggered my migraine auras, IBS and it's probably the cause of my (harmless water filled) breast cyst.

I'm now 62, very post menopause and take one pump of oestrogen gel with four pumps of progesterone gel every day plus a pea sized measure of testosterone and I find it is a good balance.   I also have to take low dose of amitriptyline (an AD) to keep the serotonin levels up - hormone manipulation alone stopped working for the migraines.

[Ruralrach]

Hi,im also a migraine sufferer and have reduced my Oestrogel from 4 pumps to 3  without any issues.im currently thinking the migraines could be from a high level of oestrogen.im back on Utrogestan as i cant take most progesterones.Can i ask where you can get a Progesterone gel ?im thinking i feel better on lower dose might look at 2 then 1 pump of Oestrogel.Anyone with anything similar i would appreciate your advice,

[Ermin2trude]

Hi Ruralrach,

I’ve read some of your posts on other discussions and was going to get in touch with you to say that I think some of your symptoms are caused by high oestrogen/low progesterone. 

If you’re having too many bleeds, then that is too much oestrogen building up the lining of your womb. Anxious, nervous. Jittery, tearful etc….high oestrogen and not enough calming progesterone. Hot flushes, night sweats, aching joints…..too little progesterone compared to oestrogen.

If you tolerate utrogestan and can take 200 mg continuously then that’s a brilliant base to get you feeling back to your old self again. Cutting down on the oestrogen would probably help with a lot of your issues. I reduced down to a 50 patch but I am thinking of reducing further. I absorbed too much oestrogen from Evorel 50 and had the breakthrough bleeds (heavy…every 2 weeks), bloating, brain fog, night sweats , aching joints, migraines etc. I’m now on Estradot 50 which is delivered in a slightly different method, because the oestrogen in the patch is such that your body absorbs it and then has to convert it into what it needs. I find it works brilliantly for me. I couldn’t cope with the gel because it created oestrogen spikes which resulted in the anxious, dizzy, heart palpitations, jitteriness that I can’t handle.

As Mary G was stating, we all have a magic ‘balance’ of hormones unique to us and some us need more progesterone/less oestrogen. You might be in that camp.

I hope you find the balance. Before I did, my health anxiety was through the roof and I was tinkering with oestrogen thinking it held the answer, when in fact my eureka moment came with utrogestan.

[Ruralrach]

Hi Ermin2trude,thank you so much for replying.im thinking the same where the answer isnt the usual thing.Im feeling less anxious on less oestrogen,bad headache yesterday but its so hot it could be that.I can tolerate 100mg Utrogestan but had to stop oral after mood dropped.i m trying alternate nights oral and pv.Will reduce Oestrogel slowly over next week and see if it helps.thank you again for your support,it does help!

[Ermin2trude]

Hello again Ruralrach,


How is it going with reducing your estrogel? How are you coping?

Have you ever taken 200mg Utrogestan orally continuously? I couldn’t tolerate 100mg (felt suicidal and unable to function), but 200mg makes me feel very calm and rock solid emotionally. My migraines happen when I don’t have progesterone…..I just crash completely……and after a few days my body adjusts to having no progesterone and I’m fine again. It’s the stability and dose of utrogestan that I need. I noticed that Mary G (4 pumps of progesterone gel daily), thought she was very progesterone intolerant a few years back and was struggling with it all.  I wonder if her Dr has the same belief that mine does…..low mood is your body signalling that you just aren’t giving your body enough progesterone. Anyway….it seems to work for us 👍

Having said that, the very hot humid weather recently gave me a stinking headache 🤕 . I do have magic pills which I take at the onset of a migraine and one of those stops it in its tracks (sumatriptan).

I detest this hormonal rollercoaster. So many times I want to rip off my patch, bin the utrogestan and see what happens. How bad can it be???.

[Ruralrach]

Hi  Ermin2trude,
Im doing better than lastweek im down to 3 pumps of Oestrogel and Utro 200mg oral and feeling more me.Its a work in progress but sleep not great as its too hot for everyone.Awake at 4 am but hoping that cooler weather will help.Im hoping if i keep same dose i may not get migraines as they only started a few years ago..
Really hope this continues as i was thinking of stopping hrt altogether.thank you again its so nice 2 have someone who understands 

[Ermin2trude]

Hi Ruralrach,

I have all my fingers and toes crossed for you. Good luck 🤞🏼

[discogirl]

Hi  Ermin2trude,
Im doing better than lastweek im down to 3 pumps of Oestrogel and Utro 200mg oral and feeling more me.Its a work in progress but sleep not great as its too hot for everyone.Awake at 4 am but hoping that cooler weather will help.Im hoping if i keep same dose i may not get migraines as they only started a few years ago..
Really hope this continues as i was thinking of stopping hrt altogether.thank you again its so nice 2 have someone who understands 

hi Ruralrach

ive been following this thread with interest. how do you take the 200mg of utro?  is it continously and if so do you take it orally or vaginally?

thanks so much xxx

[Furyan]

The whole idea of ‘more rather than less’ progesterone is beginning to make more sense to me when reading this thread, especially in the context of research trialling much larger doses. Laura Biden says the research involves giving maybe too high a dose but the principle still makes sense if we’re aiming to balance our HRT treatment. I’ve been increasing my Estrogel a little at a time to address symptoms and am now somewhere around 3 pumps. Whilst this seems to address most symptoms, I’ve noticed that each increase has caused more fluid retention. My consultant mentioned he commonly sees this when there isn’t enough progesterone to balance the effects of oestrogen. This seems to have happened with me, as I’m definitely peeing less than when on a lower dose of oestrogen 🤷🏽‍♀️.
Seriously makes me question whether I need slightly more than the 100mg Utrogestan I’m taking orally every night 🤔