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[discogirl]

well at the beginning of all this it took me ages to get to sleep. i was on 4 pumps gel a day but i felt wired and my boobs were so sore so i reduced to 3 pumps a day.

i started taking utrogestan orally at night and it does put me to sleep but what im finding is that im waking in the middle of the night and my brain feels wide awake.

last night it was 1.30 night before 4.30.

im beginning to wonder if my problems with sleep is even connected to my hormones.

any advice would be gratefully received

[ccariad]

Hi Discogirl

I had/have same problems with sleep and your message resonates with me. I was awake at 330am this morning (and that is an improving picture ) I did try the Gel and the sprays for me they may get into the system but they quickly fall so if you are like me getting to a consistent steady state of oestrogen is tricky.  It is the fluctuation up then down which creates the cortisol spikes which then wake us up feeling wired but tired and unable to get back to sleep.  If you do a lot of cardio or high resistance exercise that will further complicate things even with 2mg oral zumenon Am and PM and urogesten 100mg prior to bed, like you, if I have done a 6k run earlier in the day I will generally sleep ok until 330am. This regime is still very early days - just a week in duration so I am hoping for further improvement).  The link with exercise is due to raised SHBG,  which is increased when we exercise so any oestrogen gets bound to it and it is only free circulating oestrogen that our body can actually use !!!  I gave up with GP's and paid to see a private consultant,  am now working with a good Sexual health/menopause specialist and waiting for an implant (hopefully on NHS but will pay if I have to to get quality of life back!). An implant will hopefully  help my body get to a steady state with fewer fluctuations. In the meantime she had recommended the 2x2mg oestrogen and 100mg regime (in theory I do not need progesterone as I do not have uterus or ovaries (since age of 22)) The GP's will not go this far so you may want to get yourself a private consult with a specialist and see how that goes for you.  I hand on heart empathise with you as I know from painful first hand experience how difficult this can be. Best wishes Cc

[discogirl]

Hi ccariad

Thanks so much for your very informative reply.

I was wondering if the problem is due to not getting a consistent dose on the gel, if a patch would give me a more consistent dose, as I really don't fancy going on the implant. (just not for me) xxx

[jaypo]

Hi discogirl,my sleep since meno has been truly dreadful but recently I was put on vit d and calcium for osteopenia and lately my sleep has greatly improved, I have discussed this with another lady on here and she reckons it's the vit d and I'm now tending to agree with her, I also take CBD gummies so not sure if they help also,certainly my anxiety has improved greatly too xx

[discogirl]

Vitd Jaypo that's interesting, cos I live in the frozen north so I'm sure I'd be deficient in it!!!

I didn't realise lack of vitd could cause sleep disturbance.

I think you're meant to take it in the mornings aren't you?

How much do you take and do you really think it's helped your sleep?

I do tend to wonder if the gel just isn't giving me a consistent dose mind xx

[Gnatty]

How do you take the three pumps? If you are doing two in the morning and one at night, maybe try one and a half at night. If you are taking all three in the morning, maybe try splitting the dose. The idea being then you will have enough oestrogen to keep you going through the night. I am just experimenting with this myself. Like you I only recently started taking the utrogestan to help with sleep. It definitely is really helping but am waking about four ish. I wouldn't say I feel wired, the utrogestan seems to have damped down that feeling for me, but it does take me a while to get back to sleep. Still, it's so much better than this time five weeks ago.

[jaypo]

Ha,yes,discogirl,I'm in the far north too and don't see much of that fireball in the sky,I'd never even thought that it could be the vit d that had improved things but this lady who I spoke to pm'd me and she has looked up all the benefits of it and reckons it may be all meno ladies need in some cases (not all) and it wasn't until she mentioned it,that I thought...oh yes, everything has improved this year,I started taking it in early November,so it does take a few weeks to work.I'm on Accrete and just looked at the label    it's equivalent to 880 IU sorry,not sure what that means lol but hope it helps x

[discogirl]

How do you take the three pumps? If you are doing two in the morning and one at night, maybe try one and a half at night. If you are taking all three in the morning, maybe try splitting the dose. The idea being then you will have enough oestrogen to keep you going through the night. I am just experimenting with this myself. Like you I only recently started taking the utrogestan to help with sleep. It definitely is really helping but am waking about four ish. I wouldn't say I feel wired, the utrogestan seems to have damped down that feeling for me, but it does take me a while to get back to sleep. Still, it's so much better than this time five weeks ago.

hi gnatty

ive been taking the gel all in the morning.

i was thinking of doing two in the morning and one at night but ive always been a bit nervous as ive heard it can stimulate.

also i put my gel on at 8.30 in the morning so presumably i'd have to put the other gel on around 8.30 at night. also when putting the 2 pumps on in the morning if i put one pump on each arm would i use say an inner thigh for the night time dose?

thanks gnatty xxx

[discogirl]

Ha,yes,discogirl,I'm in the far north too and don't see much of that fireball in the sky,I'd never even thought that it could be the vit d that had improved things but this lady who I spoke to pm'd me and she has looked up all the benefits of it and reckons it may be all meno ladies need in some cases (not all) and it wasn't until she mentioned it,that I thought...oh yes, everything has improved this year,I started taking it in early November,so it does take a few weeks to work.I'm on Accrete and just looked at the label    it's equivalent to 880 IU sorry,not sure what that means lol but hope it helps x

hi jaypo

yes you and i must be in the same boat regarding sun!

i used to take it but stopped but its worth a try. i actually have some in so i will take some tomorrow.

thanks jaypo i'll let you know how i get on xx

[Kathleen]

Hello ladies.

I have been reading up on vitamin D and sleep problems are definitely linked to low levels.

I had some routine blood tests recently and although I also have several symptoms of Vit D deficiency my GP didn't include this on the test. I was also expecting iron and B12 levels to be included but they didn't happen either so I decided to supplement anyway!

It is definitely worth considering adding Vit D and other supplements to see if they help with menopause symptoms.


Wishing you well ladies and take care.

K.

[jaypo]

Ah and here's the lovely lady herself lol Hi Kathleen,didn't want to mention your name but was hoping you'd see this post.
Discogirl please do give it several weeks as I didn't notice a difference for at least 6 and it wasn't until Kathleen noticed I'd started vit d and my better sleep that we put 2 and 2 together x

[Gnatty]

I agree oestrogel can stimulate but remember we have added in utrogestan so to a large extent that should balance it out. At the end of the day it's all trial and error as we are all so different. If you are nervous see if half a pump at night makes any difference. I never worry about the timings, perhaps I should!! So my gel goes on in the morning anywhere between half eight and ten and the evening pump about half nine tennis unless I'm out and then it can be later. I have no ovaries so I guess I'm more at risk of running low by the middle of the night....

[discogirl]

Hello ladies.

I have been reading up on vitamin D and sleep problems are definitely linked to low levels.

I had some routine blood tests recently and although I also have several symptoms of Vit D deficiency my GP didn't include this on the test. I was also expecting iron and B12 levels to be included but they didn't happen either so I decided to supplement anyway!

It is definitely worth considering adding Vit D and other supplements to see if they help with menopause symptoms.


Wishing you well ladies and take care.

K.

hi kathleen

i knew vitd was important but i never knew it could affect sleep.

apart from sleep what are the other symptoms of low vitd.

thanks so much for replying kathleen take care xxx

[discogirl]

Ah and here's the lovely lady herself lol Hi Kathleen,didn't want to mention your name but was hoping you'd see this post.
Discogirl please do give it several weeks as I didn't notice a difference for at least 6 and it wasn't until Kathleen noticed I'd started vit d and my better sleep that we put 2 and 2 together x

hi jaypo

i definately will and i'll start tomorrow. it doesnt interfere with hrt or anything does it?

at the beginning of covid our gp told us to take it as he said most of us are deficient however i stopped after about 1 year.

im glad you mentioned it jaypo thanks.

can i ask what issues were you having with sleep xxx

[discogirl]

I agree oestrogel can stimulate but remember we have added in utrogestan so to a large extent that should balance it out. At the end of the day it's all trial and error as we are all so different. If you are nervous see if half a pump at night makes any difference. I never worry about the timings, perhaps I should!! So my gel goes on in the morning anywhere between half eight and ten and the evening pump about half nine tennis unless I'm out and then it can be later. I have no ovaries so I guess I'm more at risk of running low by the middle of the night....

hi gnatty

i could do that and just add a half as you're correct its all trial and error.

we should keep in touch and share our findings.

i hope it works out for you Gnatty xxx