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[Marchlove]

Just that really Scampi!

I was hugely progesterone intolerant to the extent I thought I would have to give up on HRT completely.

It was progesterone Cream that  has enabled me to slowly build up a tolerance to progesterone and to start to feel it’s beneficial properties. This has taken me a year so far and going forward I feel hopeful that my health will improve even more.

x

[Scampidoodle]

Have I imagined this but did you have histamine symptoms or we had some similar genetic issues ie comt or MTFHR - apologies if I’m totally wrong!

So did progesterone bring particular benefits for you or relief from certain symptoms or is it that you needed a progesterone as you’re on oestrogen hrt and you find you tolerate the cream? X

[Marchlove]

Yes histamine  and genetic issues, both comt and MTHFR. These genetic issues are relatively common so I think that anyone who has a problem tolerating hrt probably has them.

Yes, I do take a low dose oestrogen and the only progesterone I can tolerate is the cream. Started off on a very low dose and gradually increased.

The main benefit I find from the progesterone cream is for mood but also my histamine problems are way way better. x

[Scampidoodle]

I thought so. I’m sure we chatted on a thread about this a while back but couldn’t find it. My genetics show my histamine processing is bang on. However the comt and MTFHR throw it all off and obviously the impact on oestrogen processing causes my histamine issues. Hence why going onto three pumps of oestrogel absolutely killed me and was the beginning of trying to figure this all out.

I’m not on any oestrogen and i just take lots of supplements to support the genetic stuff (b vitamins, folate, magnesium, vitamin d, c etc) I do take antihistamines too as I just have to currently.

I started taking dim 100mg a day a month ago and this have dampened down histamine wise a lot but not enough. Also my estrogen levels aren’t mega high. I’m 43 but the last 6 years my levels have been pretty stable really. Range from 79 - 450pmol. I guess my backed up oestrogen keeps this higher in my body I don’t know?!

Anyway I can tell the dim has lowered my estrogen for various reasons but it has also helped my histamine. But it feels I’d be better upping my progesterone rather than lowering my estrogen.

Any thoughts on this Marchlove? Also can you say what dose progesterone cream you started on and what you’re up to now? Any side effects? Xx

[Marchlove]

I found I couldn’t tolerate Dim at all. Probably because I’m post menopause and my estrogen levels are pretty low and I prefer it that way.

I started with about 10mg of progesterone cream and am now taking 25mg. Regular scans of course.

The side effects were nothing like when I was taking Utrogestan but nausea was an issue for quite awhile.

It’s good that your taking the supplements. Zinc and selenium might be a good thing to add to help support your thyroid going forward.
I also can’t tolerate folate so I take follinic acid instead which I’m fine with.

I think trying to introduce some progesterone cream would indeed  be a good step for you going forward.

M x

[Scampidoodle]

Thanks that’s really helpful. How long did you get the nausea for?

I have some cream (now brand) and I’m just finishing a cycle now so will try adding in the luteal phase next month.

The whole histamine thing complicates things as in normal circumstances I would probably only want to take the cream in luteal phase to mimic what my body wants to do. But with histamine I would need it in the first half too (the rising estrogen is a killer)  But I’m unclear as to whether taking it continuously would mess up my cycle?

Thanks for the recommendations for the genetic snps. I do take zinc actually I forgot that! I’ll look for selenium though, would Brazil nuts do it or not enough?!

Really pleased you found a routine that works well for you! X

[Ali P]

Hi
Reading this with interest. And other threads regarding prog and histamine.
I had hysterectomy and I’m on estrogen my estrogen blood levels are around 400 from two tests. I’m with the Newson clinic.  The Utrogestan gives me small hives itchy skin and red wheels on legs after 21 days at 100mg a day. Split into 50mg twice a days. I stopped it. Had another go about 10 days later split further using soft gel capsules and jewellery scales. So 50mg a day The things we do
This made me very depressed. Very bad thoughts.
The estrogen level I’m at is just controlling my symptoms so can’t afford it to drop. I have quite sore boobs with it and the worst thing is the histamine intolerance. I am current eating hardly anything.  Eg this morning was 10h rice. This afternoon an eggg yolk tonight I’m trying a very very small piece of fresh steak.  I take DAO tablets. Vit c and others justo keep vitamins etc up. I have lost over 4 kg and now weight under 46kg
I was always someone who never put weight on so had nothing g to loose.
I am very very scared. Does anyone think the cream might help with the two intolerance to it that I have. I feel I have very little time left to play about with this before I become and emmegency.It has all been to late in finding a diagnosis from the first symptoms of estrogen intolerance and I blame myself for not going private sooner. Although the dr at Newson isn’t very close up on HIT
Was wondering where Gilla999 was getting her medication from. The last thread I read was Gilla was on Omalizumab.  I feel so desperate  😢😢😢😭

[Marchlove]

Scampi- I’m not sure it it would mess up your cycle, you could perhaps try taking just a small amount in the follicular phase and then increase during the luteal.
I wouldn’t recommend Brazil nuts as I’ve read that the amount of selenium can vary greatly, with some being way too high! If you supplement don’t take more than 200mcg and always take in the morning.

Ali P - I’m so sorry to hear that you’re struggling and from experience I know how frightening it can be to be underweight. It might be a good idea if your able,  to move to another clinic who can give you more bespoke treatment. If you PM me I can recommend someone.
Yes,  I do think progesterone cream could help with your intolerance but it would be great if you could have someone to guide you with it all.

M x

[Scampidoodle]

Thanks Marchlove - I’ll avoid the Brazil’s! And yes this next cycle will be progesterone cream trials. I think some peri women do take it every day and some don’t and some say it would prevent ovulation. As I say the histamine kind of makes me a different case with different needs.

Ali P - I will message you details of someone too if helpful. Sorry to hear you’re struggling. It does sound like the estrogen is impacting your histamine a lot but you can’t reduce the estrogen. There are other things that can help xx

[Hurdity]

I’ve read about the progestin kind of switching off your own progesterone production so it relies on the progestin. Hence my blood tests all showing zero progesterone in me.

When you say partly suppresses ovulation do you mean it does sometimes and not others?

Hi Scampidoodle

The answer is I don't know! Just read the product info which does not go into details with data:

" The contraceptive mechanism of action of Mirena is based on mainly hormonal effects producing the following changes:

- Prevention of proliferation of the endometrium

- Thickening of the cervical mucus thus inhibiting the passage of sperm

- Suppression of ovulation in some women. "

https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/1132/smpc#gref

What you have read sounds reasonable - because, if the Mirena suppresses ovulation (or if you are post-menopausal and don't ovulate) then progesterone will appear as almost zero - it is only produced in large amounts as part of ovulation and in pregnancy, and blood tests are designed to measure these larger amounts (for fertility reasons) - therefore progesterone levels will be barely detectable when post-menopausal, or during the first part of the menstrual cycle. Rest assured you will still be producing it as part of your normal metabolic processes - just not in large amounts as you need to prepare for pregnancy.

Hurdity x

[Hurdity]

Hurdity, irrespective of your strong views on this subject of progesterone creams, unless you have actually tried it yourself to alleviate symptoms then i simply cannot take any instruction or advice from you on what the best course of action is. It's as simple as that and i hope anyone reading this thread are not discouraged from trying various products in order to help them in their menopausal journey.

Hi HelloSam

I wouldn't dream of "instructing" anyone what their best course of action was, (except very occasionally for ther own safety - sometimes women have been given dangerous advice by their doctors for example)!

In many areas of life people offer opinions and advice based on knowledge and experience - male doctors and gynaecologists for example will never experience menopause but advise on HRT products, therapists will advise and help people but won't necessarily have suffered trauma. Those of us who offer advice on HRT products on this forum, have not necessarily tried them all - but we've read about them, and share that with others who may not have done so. Women are regularly advised to seek medical opinion.

This is a free and open forum and wonderful that it continues to be so where everyone is free to give their opinion, experience, knowledge or advice as asked or even if not asked (provided they do so respecting the rules of the forum and BNBR).

No amount of anecdotal evidence can replace evidence based research  - and even then, won't tell anyone how they will be affected individually, though the research evidence is the best starting point. It is how all medicine operates as I said in my previous post.

Maybe the effect is placebo - and placebo can have a positive and powerful effect - and there is nothing wrong with that but it is still important for women to be as well-informed as they can be in order to make the right decision for themselves, and I also "hope anyone reading this thread" is able to do that, without necessarily having to spend large amounts of money on a possibly fruitless direction. Of course I wish everyone well on their menopause journey - that is taken as read!

Scampidoodle - it is very doubtful that there is sufficient progesterone in cream to prevent ovulation?

Hurdity x

[HelloSam666]

Hurdity

I wouldn't dream of "instructing" anyone what their best course of action was, (except very occasionally for ther own safety   Are you a qualified medical doctor, consultant or nurse? My own GP and my next door neighbour (a female GP) have discussed the creams i use to alleviate the symptoms i was having. Both are in agreement that the creams i use have stopped the need for other medication i was initially prescribed for migraines, insomnia, mood etc.

This is a free and open forum and wonderful that it continues to be so where everyone is free to give their opinion, experience, knowledge or advice as asked or even if not asked (provided they do so respecting the rules of the forum and BNBR). Correct, therefore it is wrong for you or anyone else to suggest that a person discussing a product that works well for them may be a "placebo" is plain wrong and to be honest, an insult to our intelligence.

[CrispyChick]

I agree hellosam. What gives??? Why the insult about progesterone cream only being capable of placebo?

Maybe try a dab. Then decide. 

Now, I'm taking a break at the moment, as the prog cream didnt work in the way I wanted, but placebo??? Not a bloody chance. I've also tried utrogestan, as many have. So I can compare.

We're not daft. We know when something is real and when it's fake. Goodness me.

I think the reason male doctors and gynaecologists offer advice is, erm, because they have medical degrees and are qualified in the field.

Keep talking ladies. We need to discuss this. I've thought many a time about leaving this forum because, being in perimenopause, with decent estrogen levels, I've been made to feel stupid for suggesting progesterone decline can actually impact our bodies and minds quite severely. But, for the most part, I benefit from the chat in this alternatives section.

If you dont believe in something, why bother commenting?!  Perhaps just give a little thought to how your comments can impact us ladies still striving to find our solution - mental health is a huge part of this meno game! Be kind. Or... Maybe just be quiet 

P. S. As point of proof for those poor ladies now confused by this. When I was trialling compounded progesterone cream, I increased my dose quite significantly (and stupidly) to 150mg. Then dropped down to 100mg. Within days, mid cycle, I had a withdrawal bleed (my periods, are regular). There are hormones in these creams!!!!!

P. P. S another edit  . At sufficient dose it did stop ovulation in me. Which, is why I think I might be better using only in luteal - if I go back to it.

[Scampidoodle]

Having ‘dabbled’ with progesterone cream it definitely dampened my migraine and nausea symptoms and also the heart palpitations I would wake with.

As way of an update, I stopped the dim as it was reducing my estrogen too much. But I may be going back on it at a lower dose using a liquid version where you can actually take a lower than 100mg dose (thanks crispy!) - hopefully it’ll still help at a low dose.

Speaking to my gynae/histamine consultant on Tuesday so I’m going to talk to her about all things hormone, histamine, dim and progesterone cream!

[Mary G]

Well, my pharmaceutically produced Darstin progesterone gel sure as hell ain't a placebo!   I have progesterone blood levels and uterus lining scans to prove it ie below the 5mm danger line for a continuous combined HRT regime.

I agree with Crispy, Scampi and Sam, progesterone deficiency is responsible for many of symptoms during the menopause, not least migraines, anxiety and insomnia.  Progesterone is a real life saver for women who are top heavy with oestrogen too.

At the right dose, progesterone is your best friend at the wrong dose, it's your worst enemy.