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[laszla]

I recently did the more in-depth thryoid blood test and wonder if anyone can either provide feedback on these or point me in the direction of somewhere that could - I think there is perhaps a thyroid forum where one can do this but not sure? They all seem within range...
TSH 1.37
Free T3 3.4
Free thyroxine 15.7
Thyroglobulin antibodies 15.3
Thyroid peroxidase antibodies 10

>Folate 20 u/g
>B12 256
Vit D 76
CRP HS 1.6

Ferritin 59 which is lower than ideal and 3 days previously was 39 which is odd as I supplement every other day

I also did a cortisol and dhea test and they haven't provided any illumination as they seem pretty ok from my understanding: cortisols are lowish but within range except the afternoon reading which is 1 decimal point below the bottom of the normal range which hardly seems significant ( I did the 4 x daily saliva one).
Overall cortisol to dhea ratio slightly low but not significant.

So while I'm glad to have done these tests just to know what they are, they haven't provided any possible leads for ongoing problems that hormones still haven't resolved - mainly chronic fatigue and anxiety.
I think in my case I am going to have to concentrate on optimizing oestrogen levels which I'm increasingly convinced I need to be high as suggested by meno specialist.

[Marchlove]

Hi Laszla

Well done for doing the cortisol/Dhea saliva testing.

Could you possibly post again with the reference ranges of all of the tests you’ve had done. They differ between labs so this is important.

I’m not an expert by any means, but if I can help in some small way I’m happy to do so.

From what you’ve said so far your cortisol levels are too low.

High and low cortisol symptoms unfortunately have exactly the same symptoms, namely anxiety and fatigue, so it’s hard to know without testing.

Are you peri or post?

Big learning curve ahead and hopefully we can all help in some small way.

M x

[KaraShannon]

Hi laszla

I'm afraid I've nothing to add that you don't seem to already know. 

I have hashimoto's disease and I'm really struggling with fatigue and I'm curious where you got your blood test done from as I'm getting nowhere at my surgery, they will only do TSH.

Thanks, I hope you get some answers. 

[laszla]

Thank you both. Kara I had my thyroid blood done at Medichecks (advanced thyroid profile) and cortisol/dhea at Healthpath.

Marchlove, thanks for the offer. Results and ranges as follows, with asterisks by out of range results (ferritin although within their conservative range is much lower than ideal from what I've read). I'm post-m and on highish dose of oestrogel that I have trouble absorbing and the more I take (and absorb) the better I feel. 10 days of utro.

TSH 1.37 mIU/L (Range: 0.27 - 4.2)
Free T3 3.4 pmol/L (Range: 3.1 - 6.8
Free Thyroxine 15.7 pmol/l (Range: 12 - 22)

Thyroglobulin Antibodies 15.3 IU/mL (Range: 0 - 115)
Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies 10.0 IU/mL (Range: 0 - 34)

Cortisol 1: 8.4 (3.0 - 16 nmol/L)
Cortisol 2: 13.1 (9.0-26 nmol/L)
Cortisol 3: 8.5 (5.0-19 nmol/L)
*Cortisol 4: 2.9 (3.0-9.0 nmol/L)
Cortisol 5: 0.8 (0.5-4 nmol/L)
DHEA am: 0.74 nmol/L (0.23-1.38)
DHEA pm: 0.60 nmol/L (0.13-0.69)
Cortisol daily total: 33.8 (20.5-74)
*Cortisol-DHEA ratio: 37.8 (46.6-77.6)

CRP HS 1.6 mg/l (Range: 0 - 5)
Ferritin 59 ug/L (Range: 13 - 150)
Folate - Serum >20.0 ug/L (Range: > 2.9)
*Vitamin B12  >256.0 pmol/L (Range: 25.1 - 165)
Vitamin D 76 nmol/L (Range 50 - 200 nmol/L)


 

[Marchlove]

Hi Laszla

I’ll get back you you tomorrow. But in the meantime, could you let me know the following-
What times you did do the 5 cortisol tests?
Are you on any thyroid meds?
Do you supplement folate and B12?
I don’t know what CRP HS is, can you enlighten me?!

M x

[laszla]

Thanks Marchlove,
IIRC cortisol times were 9am, 9.30, 10, 5 pm, 12.30am, no thyroid meds, multivitamin I take has b12 and folate.
Crp hs is an inflammation marker...

[Marchlove]

Thanks laszla

So just to clarify as a bit confused still , so you did a cortisol awakening response of
9am
9.30am
10am
Then
12.30 am
Then
5pm  ?

What multivitamin do you take?

Thank you for clarification of the CRP HS marker.

I probably won’t be able to reply until this weekend.
In the meantime have a look at the thread ‘interpreting thyroid test results’.
But just an initial observation is that your cortisol is too low and this is something you need to concentrate on more than the thyroid results at present.

Hopefully Wrensong will see your post and respond regarding your thyroid results but in the meantime I’ll have more of a think about your adrenals.

Nitey x

[laszla]

Thanks Marchlove, will consult that thyroid thread.
Cortisol times 9am, 9.30am, 10am, 5pm and 12.30 am (half past midnight, last thing at night). I take a MV by Nature's Best and additional, separate magnesium, and iron biglycinate. Also an adaptogen complex (ashwaghanda, schisandra, rhodiola and others).The cortisol is low in the afternoon but only very slightly and this seems to fit with the much quoted 'afternoon slump' people refer to.

[Marchlove]

Hi Laszla

Sorry for the delay!

I will concentrate just now on your saliva cortisol results, as it is these that stand out to me as being the primary area that you should work on just now.

So how to understand your saliva results.

Your cortisol in the morning should be at the very top of the range, to help you wake up refreshed

11 am - noon  in the upper quarter but not quite as high as the morning.  The lab you used didn't do this test, but it's fair to assume that your result for this time would have been low also, given that your morning and late afternoon are low.

4-5 pm they should be midrange

Bedtime at, the very bottom such as 1 with a range of 0.5-4 to help you fall asleep.

So, it is quite clear from this that you have low cortisol.  I am not a medic just someone who has had low cortisol twice over the last six years and have been able to rectify the situation, but I would encourage you to do your own research and if you are able to find a functional medical practitioner to work with.
It is quite confusing for people when they first discover that they have low cortisol as they are convinced it is the opposite and that they have high, but unfortunately the symptoms are identical for both!

I would suggest that you do not try and increase your oestrogen further at this stage as this can have a negative effect on your adrenals
and also I would stop using the adaptogen herbs as they have the potential to lower high cortisol which is not what you are trying to achieve, although if you are taking them at night and they are helping you sleep well you could continue with them but definitely do not take them during the day.

Turning to your Thyroid results which aren't actually too bad apart from the fact that your FT3 is rather low. This is probably because your adrenals are stressed from low cortisol and that if you concentrate on them this is likely to correct itself.

I hope this is of some help and if you would like me to comment on some other aspects of your recent tests Please do not hesitate to ask.

M x

[laszla]

Many thanks Marchlove,
I was told by a naturopath that adaptogens raise or lower cortisol as needed and never outside of the ideal physiological ranges so low cortisol would theoretically benefit as much as high cortisol from adaptogen supplementation.
My cortisol is a bit low but only the afternoon one is a tiny bit below range, and yes Free T3 could be a little higher so I'll look into raising those.

[Marchlove]

Your naturopath is wrong laszla.
If you read the book Stop the Thyroid Madness there are 2 excellent chapters in there on adrenals which point this out quite clearly.
Best of luck to you with it all xx

[margherita]

Your naturopath is wrong laszla.
If you read the book Stop the Thyroid Madness there are 2 excellent chapters in there on adrenals which point this out quite clearly.
Best of luck to you with it all xx

Laszla you are correct that adaptogens potentially raise or lower cortisol levels: their ability to adapt their effects according to what is needed is what gives rise to their name.
I would also be wary of books written by people with no medical qualifications.

[Marchlove]

As far as I am aware the author has no medical qualifications and the book is primarily based in the experiences of people with thyroid dysfunction along with adrenal issues.

However, I did not base my suggestions solely upon that book but on my own experience and working with first an endocrinologist and now a functional highly qualified doctor, having had problems with cortisol insufficiency 3 times in the last six years.