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[discogirl]

Hey

I’ve had a horrible history of not sleeping, but it’s gotten a lot better

Magnesium (a good brand) has really helped, this is going to sound odd but it really works …. If I wake up, In go to the toilet immediately and when I get back into bed keep telling myself that everything is ok, you’re ok, everything is going to be fine …and just keep repeating that .,,,,,,, (therapist advice)….and it actually works, as some that is deeply anxious and spent hours luring in bed just worrying over nothing

hi carmen

thanks so much for your reply.

im glad your sleep is better.

with me its the actual dropping off once im.asleep im ok but i can lie there for hours.

i try controlled brrathing and stuff.

i miss how i used to sleep

[Marchlove]

Sorry for earlier typos was serving up supper!

Yes it can be hit and miss getting the gel I believe but not too sure about the current situation.

Mx

[discogirl]

thats ok marchlove.

what gel do you use x

[Marchlove]

I’m on ultra low dose compounded.

So, it’s just low dose whatever gel is available if that’s the route you decide to go down.

M x

[Katherine]

Hi discogirl, sorry to hear you’re still not sleeping. Personally I would not be sleeping if I did not take Utrogestan before bed. I highly recommend you take it before bed. It doesn’t have a strong sedative effect it just seems to help me sleep for longer in one go and more deeply so I feel more refreshed when I wake up. Before I took utrogestan I used to wake up in the morning feeling like I’d just shut my eyes all night. Now I feel like I’ve really rested. I don’t think anything else would have worked for me. I’ve tried everything including nytol, all the good habits, etc but this is the only thing I’ve ever found that has worked for me.

[discogirl]

I’m on ultra low dose compounded.

So, it’s just low dose whatever gel is available if that’s the route you decide to go down.

M x

marchlove, you know how the patches distribute so much estrogen over 24hrs. is that the same with the gel. that its distributed over 24 hrs x

[Marchlove]

Hi discogirl

I don’t believe so. This has not been my experience anyway.
I did some research awhile ago about our natural estrogen daily rhythm and
the studies said that our estrogen is at its highest in the morning with another 3 peaks and troughs throughout the day, then reaching a low point throughout the night.
So based on this I decided that the best time to dose was in the a.m.

M x

[Marchlove]

Actually looking again it seems there is a smaller peak at 3am.
Have a look at this graph, goodness knows how we’re supposed to replicate that!!

https://eje.bioscientifica.com/downloadpdf/journals/eje/148/2/227.pdf

A 24 hour patch perhaps!

[Kathleen]

Hello ladies.

Marchlove - Your information about the natural peaks and troughs of Oestrogen are very interesting.  Although I am post meno and on HRT I am convinced that I am still on a daily cycle of ups and downs. I seem to experience changes every four hours but they usually stabilise  in the evening. Unfortunately the rollercoaster begins again the next day!

Discogirl -  I assume that the gel is effective for 24 hours otherwise we would be instructed to use it twice in a day. Whether it's effectiveness wears off over that time is another matter. Some ladies report that a three and a half day patch only really lasts for three days but again absorption rates vary.

Take care ladies.

K.

[Wragmop]

Hi discogirl
Poor sleep was the worst symptom for me too. I started on a 25 patch with utrogeston for the last 2 weeks of the month (I’m peri). It didn’t help, but once I got to a 75 patch my sleep improved slowly but surely and after 2 weeks I was sleeping through the night and waking refreshed. Hang in there!

[Marchlove]

Hi Kathleen

Well I suppose our adrenals follow the circadian rhythm once our ovaries go south post menopause.

I agree, my mood, which isn’t too bad really, is always better in the evening.

I have an issue with early waking at 4am’ish for about an hour and I’m wondering if that due to me not getting a mini peak of estrogen at 3am followed by a trough. I’m not anxious when I awake but just can’t go straight back to sleep.

I don’t take an AD any longer but take otc 5mg lithium orotate at breakfast and lunch and this has been very helpful regarding my mood swings. If I don’t take it I get them.

I have more physical symptoms which I think is more thyroid related.

Mx

[discogirl]

Actually looking again it seems there is a smaller peak at 3am.
Have a look at this graph, goodness knows how we’re supposed to replicate that!!

https://eje.bioscientifica.com/downloadpdf/journals/eje/148/2/227.pdf

A 24 hour patch perhaps!

thanks so much for that info marchlove im away until tomorrow so i will have a proper look when i get back.

hi kathleen

yes your right. i just wondered though you know with the patches they release a steady amount of estrogen over 24hr period i wondered if the gel was the same x

[discogirl]

Hi discogirl
Poor sleep was the worst symptom for me too. I started on a 25 patch with utrogeston for the last 2 weeks of the month (I’m peri). It didn’t help, but once I got to a 75 patch my sleep improved slowly but surely and after 2 weeks I was sleeping through the night and waking refreshed. Hang in there!

hi wragmop

that gives me hope thank you!

im post meno and have just gone up to a 50 patch which im sticking with until jan x

[discogirl]

Hi Mollydolly,

Thanks so much for your reply.

Yes regarding utro I know many women cannot tolerate it; I take my utro in the morning and I also take it vaginally to lessen any side effects.

I have tried to be very careful with my patches. My estrogen when I got my levels checked before I started HRT, which was end of June were only 19pmo/L which I understand is low. However being post meno I expected that. So my gp, who is lovely, he put me on estraderm 25, then on 13th sept I increased to 37.5 which I stayed on until the other saturday when I increased to 50.

Its interesting regarding where to put them for maximum absorption, I always use my butt cheeks, as I read some research that indicated absorption is 20% on butt cheeks, but I know a few women who do put them on their abdomen, it's trial and error I guess.

Thanks so much for your advice it all really helps me xx Are you still on utro 7 days per month now by the way and have you tried using them vaginally x

[discogirl]

thanks for that i may try it there.

ive only just gone up to a 50 patch and i want to give body time to adjust x