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[CrispyChick]

My own estrogen has just tested at 2089. I take absolutely no estrogen. It was 221 pmol in March.

I have bad effects of high estrogen e. g nausea and dizziness.

Is this a ridiculous level for my own body to churn out? I'm 46. In peri.

[Marchlove]

That’s a high estrogen result Crispy!
I believe you only take transdermal progesterone, so this seems quite a strange test result.
Did you have your progesterone level tested as well and if so what was the result?

Hope you feeling ok tonight as it must be a bit overwhelming trying to decipher it all.

M x

[Hurdity]

Hi Crispychick
 
Oestrogen levels vary hugely during peri - this is generally known - so I don't know why it is being measured? Really this is unnecessary and I may suggest unhelpful especially if you are not supplementing with HRT - because it may be causing extra worry. You may have ovulated or it maybe that your body is "trying" to ovulate.

There is an excellent account here which I've only just skimmed through parts of it ( did read years ago!):
https://www.glowm.com/section-view/heading/Endocrinology%20of%20the%20Perimenopausal%20Woman/item/82#

Here is a quote:

"An important but often clinically frustrating aspect of the perimenopause is that estradiol levels do not gradually decrease; instead, they fluctuate greatly around the normal range until menopause, when no more responsive follicles are available.26 The anovulatory cycles often seen may be associated with elevated levels of estradiol.14, 17 Thus, as a woman ages, there is not a progressive downward spiral in the estrogenic milieu, but instead a "roller-coaster" in estrogen production."

As you are still young, and if you are concerned about the oestrogen spikes and their effect on you, you can suppress the cycle/ovulation with one of the gentle combined contraceptive pills like Qlaira which contain estradiol.

Please try not to worry and I would suggest - stop having blood tests - I hope it helps to know that these fluctuations are completely normal!

Hurdity x

[CrispyChick]

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, March, I'm taking progesterone only. Since my peri started I've had normal estrogen levels and my progesterone has been through the floor. But now it seems my estrogen is through the roof and my prog is still through the floor - despite supplementing. I'm told it's all about ratio and my ratio is very very off.

Thanks hurdity. I've been at this for years and I've tried a lot of pills - they either made me worse or gave me bad side affects. So I'm on a new path.

The reason for the tests is I feel dire. It's like my estrogen is poisoning me. This tests was in my luteal phase, 6 days before my period. A very short trial of hrt 2 years ago - and the estrogen alone gave me this same feeling. That's when I realised I didn't need estrogen. But estrigen and the pill are all I am offered.

So anyway, I'm now taking prog only. There is a phenomenon talked about in the literature (mostly American /Canadian) about how high estrogen in the absence of sufficient prog tunes down your estrogen receptors. Then when you add prog this allows the estrogen receptors to re sensitise. I'm wondering if this is what has happened. But I'm unclear if sensitising my receptors would actually increase blood levels of estrogen.

Any ideas?

The reason for the bloods hurdity is I'm so unbalanced, I feel so ill and poisoned by my own estrogen. I'm hoping to get my prog up. X

[Kathleen]

Hello CrispyChick

I am sorry that you are suffering and that certainly is a mighty amount of oestrogen you have at the moment.

As we know balance is key but of course that is easier said than done.

Can I ask what your symptoms are at the moment?

 I am following the advice of a consultant who suggested that I reduce my HRT and I am trying to learn all I can about the symptoms of oestrogen dominance.

Your comment about feeling poisoned certainly resonates with me.

I hope you find a resolution soon as feeling off balance is an exhausting experience.

Wishing you well.

K.

[CrispyChick]

Thanks Kathleen.

Yes, I definitely feel poisoned when my estrogen is high. It's hard to explain but I feel woozy and vile. Nauseous with motion sickness. Then extreme fatigue abd aches too.

When at my worst I get severe pressure in my ears.

I'd definitely question it if you feel bad on higher estrogen. They don't seem to believe in estrogen dominance in UK. But my own body creates this in me. Yet the NHS suggested I take estrogen. Mind blowing.

X

[Kathleen]

Hello again CrispyChick.

Thank you so much for responding.

I began HRT three years after my last period and over time I have experienced many of the physical symptoms of the menopause however the emotional symptoms have never completely resolved. I was told that HRT often doesn't help with these. As a consequence I have always been given more and more oestrogen.

After being on a high dose and having painful breasts and heavy bleeding I am now lowering my Oestrogen. I have been doing some research and found  that mood swings can also be a symptom of too much Oestrogen. I am wondering if my issues have been made worse because I have been oestrogen dominant.

I don't have the symptoms you list but I do feel wobbly, jittery, tired, panicky and tearful.
I don't have any of the more usual  symptoms of low Oestrogen such as poor sleep, vaginal dryness or bladder problems etc.

I am hoping to speak to an NHS consultant to find out more and I will if course update the forum.

It seems possible that some women have oestrogen dominance throughout their lives and this may explain why focusing on this hormone creates more imbalance with some of us.

Thanks again for your comments and I wish you luck in finding the regime that suits you.

Take care.

K.

[CrispyChick]

Thanks Kathleen

I think you're making a good start by considering this.

I have felt jittery avd panicky before too. Not I'd say that has calmed for me just now, it's just the awful poisoned feeling . It's vile.

I've been really bad today. I'm in follicular phase, so I guess estrogen is ramping back up.

Although my bloods were a shock. I'm actually glad they've shown the huge imbalance, it means I have a reason why i feel so bad.

Im going to try calcium d glucarate as it helps lower toxins and estrogen by upregulating their excretion. X

[Kathleen]

Hello again CrispyChick

I like your thinking! Anything and everything is worth trying in an effort to find some hormonal balance.

I wish you luck and let us know how you get on.

Take care.

K.

[Mary G]

Crispy, these people churn out some very good products, I'm currently trialling Darstin myself and it brilliant.   I'm already using Oestraclin.   I've no idea if you have this brand in the UK but here are the details:

https://lab-seid.com/salud-femenina/darstin/?lang=en#toggle-id-5

Might be worth a try?

[CrispyChick]

Thanks Mary

It does seem like my route of administration of prog may be causing my problem. Possibly not absorbing enough. Probably time for a change.

Thanks for the info. X

[Floo36]

Morning, I am one that has massive spikes and drops in Estrogen.  I did so many blood tests and finally worked out that they are just surges and not what the levels are all of the time. I can actually feel normal at times when I get the spikes in Estrogen but it doesn’t last long.  I feel poisoned when I’m low and fluctuating, I’ve been very Ill at times over the last 3 1/2 years because of declining and fluctuations hormones, I really didn’t think I would make it.  I have posted previously about it but I did a range of tests in my quest to work out what was happening to me on and off HRT because I was led to believe because of bloods that I was absorbing the HRT but not getting better.  I did tests almost daily over a 3 week period and every one was wildly different, lowest was 457, highest was over 5000pmol.  My specialist has agreed that I should not do anymore Estrogen bloods whilst I’m in this chaotic stage of peri ( I’m 54).  In total over the 3 1/2 years I’ve done roughly 20 Estrogen tests and only 2 came back low the others were normal, high to off the charts high.  The stress that doing these tests have caused was enormous because it felt like I was constantly trying to prove that my Estrogen was low because of my symptoms but just couldn’t prove it will tests and really we shouldn’t have to.  Our ovaries can chuck out enormous amounts of Estrogen at this time so it’s not unusual.  Treating the symptoms is the most important thing.

[Kathleen]

Hello again ladies.

Floo36 - thank you for a very helpful post. You have managed to prove what many of us suspect and I'm sorry that doing so came at such a cost. You have certainly had a chaotic time but hopefully a more stable post meno is ahead  ( I had my last period at your age).

Wishing you well.

K.


 

[CrispyChick]

Yes, thanks floo. You make some good points there.

I think I am probably done with bloods. I might do a sneaky saliva just to confirm if I've been absorbing prog or not (topical shows in saliva I believe).

That said, I actually feel better about my situation since receiving that result. I'm the opposite to you. I think my problems are caused by the high estrogen and, whilst it obviously spikes up and down, for the most part I feel dreadfully ill because mine is too high, or, shall I say, too high in comparison to my prog. So I am totally unbalanced.

I feel best on day 2 to 5...then it all ramps back up again. A little respite following ovulation then back to hell again.  like you, this has been going on a very long time. But I am worse at the moment - and those bloods indicate why.

I agree, treating the symptoms is the most important thing. But as its my estrigen making me ill, I struggle to treat it, as the NHS will only offer me further estrogen. I've tried it and that's when I first realised estrogen was not my friend.

So I am trying to treat my symptoms with prog only - but clearly it's not working  . If I don't laugh, I will most definitely cry!

Thanks ladies x

[Mary G]

Crispy, I'm so sorry you have had to deal with this alone and without much decent support or advice from the medical profession.

I had exactly the same problem myself for a number of years but in my case, it was oestrogen spikes, low progesterone and the resulting silent migraines.  I still find it hard to comprehend why so many doctors were incapable of properly diagnosing my condition.  I have had to mostly work things out for myself and make my own decisions on medication.

It's interesting that the NHS deny the very existence of oestrogen dominance (aka oestrogen spikes) yet they don't appear to have any better ideas and from what you have said, they seem to have been unable to help you.

There is a good reason why some people refer to oestrogen spikes as oestrogen dominance.   In the very first stages of the menopause, progesterone goes west before oestrogen and this loss of progesterone is then made worse by oestrogen becoming unstable and very often spiking.   This was the chain of events that originally triggered my silent migraines but other women develop a number of other conditions like panic attacks, anxiety and depression for example.

Sorry to ask but are you taking any other medication like ADs for example?