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[discogirl]

Morning everyone,

I have asked this before but cannot find the thread.

I am currently using utrogestan orally 100mg in the morning; I've been on HRT since 25th August.

I've just increased my patch from 25 mcg estraderm to one and half patches.

My sleep is still shocking, when I get to bed my heart pounds, I feel jittery and just really anxious, so I'm wondering if it could be the side effects from the Utrogestan, even though I take it in the morning.

I want to trial taking it vaginally and I have some questions.

Is it the same capsule that I use orally for vaginal use?

How do I know when it is dissolved, I mean do you have to wait a while before you pee etc?

Do I still use it every morning?

Thanks so much xxx

[Marchlove]

Hi discogirl

Yes it is the same capsule.
I don’t know how long it takes to dissolve as when I used to take it I always took it at night just before sleep. Hopefully someone else will come along who will know more.
Yes if you take it every morning orally you should do the same vaginally.
That said though if you want to trial taking it every other day to see if it is the Utrogestan that is impacting your sleep, you could do so.

In my experience it has always been the estrogen that’s made me anxious and jittery but I realise this has not been the same experience for everyone.

I do hope you manage to find what works for you soon, unfortunately it often takes some trial’s and errors before you reach a solution.

Big hug x

[discogirl]

Hi Marchlove,

Thanks for the info about the utro.

It is interesting what you said about the estrogen making you anxious and jittery; what did you do about that side effect from the estrogen?


Thanks xx

[ange63]

I recently started with estrogel and PV utrogestan.   i take PV every other day - because of stomach problems would not take orally.    You can tell its dissolved as you do get a white show which is melted capsule shell.           Struggling with the regime to get a balance - only used one pump to start with and felt calmer and slept better - but then upped to 2 pumps but not great on 2 pumps as jittery, restless and feeling unwell again.  So today reducing back down to  1 pump and 1 utrogestan capsule every other day.   Use Vagifem 1 day a week also and make sure I do this on a day when not using the PV utrogestan.     Its such a juggling act at times...   x

[Dotty]

Hi yes it’s the same capsule that you use orally but it may be better to use it at night as it’s less likely to fall out ( not speaking from experience, but I know I’ve read that ).

The symptoms you describe are more likely to be caused by low oestrogen. Did you have these symptoms before starting hrt ? x

[discogirl]

Well I've never suffered with sleep issues, but I developed tinnitus in february which compounded anxiety which I already had a little bit; the insomnia seemed to start with the tinnitus, which I have got used to now, but the insomnia never went away.

Finally, I decided I'm post meno, may also be to do with low estrogen which is when I started the HRT

xxx

[ange63]

 HI Discogirl - I'm 59 and 5 years post meno (thought getting through it all and waiting for magic 5 years and out other side but NO!!).  Last November 2021 I started with reflux and GERD and IBS-type problems which have been terrible.  Then came the  anxiety, insomnia, tinnitus,sinusitis (causing congestion and headaches),  dry eyes (really bad and causing motion sickness feeling at times), hair shedding, tingling wrists/hands (parasthesia), brain fog, loss of libido.  Lots of tests and scans and all normal.   Then I twigged this has got to be hormones!!  There are so many things that can change.  I use the utrogestan PV and is same capsule as you would take orally.  Never had capsule fall out as make sure it is as far as I can get in the vagina (bit fiddly but get used to it) and if using PV can use 1 capsule every other day as is local to where its needed (Newson Clinic advice is that its acceptable).  x

[discogirl]

 Hi ange63,

Thanks so much for replying.

That's so interesting about you developing tinnitus as well. Do you think your tinnitus was caused by your sinusitis and
has your tinnitus cleared up?

Mine hasn't but I'm sort of getting used to it now; I did some research and apparantely low estrogen levels can cause
tinnitus as well.

For me by far the insomnia is the worst, I always slept really well until this year.

I'm just trying things out with the HRT, I'm not sure if the anxiety is heightened by the utro, (I take the utro in the morning) but I thought I'd try it vaginally. I use the same capsule and I also use it in the mornings as I don't really want
to use anything at night to disturb the very little sleep I get.

I just use (sorry for such detail) my finger to insert the capsule into my vagina as far as it will go, I then sit down for an hour and don't use the loo for about 30 mins, my only worry is that it hasn't sort of seeped out when I did pee and that I'm not it dissolved.

Thanks for your help xxx

[Marchlove]

Hi discogirl

In answer to your question what did
I do about the estrogen causing anxiety, I lowered the dose right down (I use a cream) and I use it in the morning.

Mx

[sheila99]

You could try a couple of cycles of sequi, you'll have a bleed but it will tell you if utro is the problem. Insomnia and anxiety can be symptoms of oestrogen deficiency (they were for me, took 3 months on HRT to resolve) but just to complicate things anxiety (particularly jittery) can be from too much oestrogen. Have you seen any improvement at all since you've been on hrt? Has anything got worse? I would be wary of increasing too much too soon as some symptoms do need time to resolve.
They say you should try any new regime for 3 months before changing.
Taking utro vaginally sorts out digestive problems, for anything else it's worth trying but may not be the silver bullet.

[discogirl]

Hi Marchlove,

At my three monthly review I am considering changing to the gel as I was thinking i could also use it in the mornings.

Can I ask how did you determine between the estrogen giving you anxiety and not the progesterone as I believed that low estrogen levels can contribute to anxiety.

Thanks so much xx

[discogirl]

Hi Sheila99,

I had my levels checked during a full blood check and dr said my estrogen levels were low, but he said since I am 4yrs post meno (i think) that they would expect them to be low.

I started HRT 25mcg estraderm and 100g utrogestan orally (in the mornings) and by 31st august I started to see a slight improvement in my sleep. However, a few days ago I started up with sleeping badly again, so I thought it must be my estrogen and I increased it just by half a patch.

What is a sequi cycle? As I am post meno I didn't think I would have a bleed? (sorry if I sound dumb this is all still very new to me)

Also I have just today started taking utro vaginally, I was under the impression that if I took it vaginally a lot of the metabolic by products that may also cause anxiety would be alleviated since I was taking it vaginally and bypassing the digestive route, if you know what I mean.

Thanks so much xxxx (sorry for all the questions)

[Marchlove]

Hi discogirl

The way I determined it was estrogen causing anxiety (age 64) was to do sequential for three months.

But that said, I slowly realised that it’s actually a correct balance between estrogen and progesterone,  that determines fewer symptoms.

Us, post menopausal gals should, in theory, have less severe fluctuations.
So I think we are better enabled  to self determine what our bodies actually need, if we can somehow listen.

Work in progress here, but very slowly getting there.

Mx

[discogirl]

ah that makes complete sense marchlove.

gosh i really don't know where i'd be without this forum im forever grateful.

my gp wasn't even aware utro tablets could be used vaginally as well as orally until i told him. all thanks to MM.

thanks so much xxxx

[sheila99]

As your anxiety started before hrt is there any reason to think utrogeston is contributing to it? It's usually an oestrogen issue. My recovery from anxiety and insomnia wasn't a linear progression, very little in the first month then very much up and down. It was only towards the end of the 3rd month I had consistent results. I think you're a month or so in? So I would expect you to see continuing improvement even though it may be a bit erratic.