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[KarineT]

It looks like my thread is off topic now.

[Dandelion]

Er … yes … its been a lifesaver for me ! And i dont hesitate to say this either. Not for everyone but .. we all appreciate this . This forum is called menopause matters . Not hrt matters
what a strange post …

I can understand OP worrying, as we are prone to it in peri or meno.
I like this "This forum is called menopause matters . Not hrt matters"
I'm sure there are many women not on HRT who sail through meno and enjoy old age with good health, it's just this place is here to deal with those who struggle without, and I guess those who don't need HRT don't come as they have no problems.

In my 30's I looked forward to meno, I just thought it meant no periods.
I am 55, mine started at 42, I still get night sweats and I hope the anxiety and depression I get are meno related, as I would hate for the problems I worry about to be real.
My flushes got so bad, I needed 100mcg patches, bleeding meant I had to reduce, fortunately, it appears that the heat improved on it's own, so only a fan is needed all year around, no day flushes, I am on 25mcg now with utrogestan.
I do not mean to invalidate meno anxiety, I just cannot think of a better way to word it.

[Dandelion]

You are at risk as a woman if your estrogen and/or testosterone levels fall, as they do during perimenopause and menopause, according to that link & a wealth of science on the subject.

Yet, while some of us take HRT, nature didn't intend for us to have as many hormones at our age.
I am afraid I didn't read the link, I am tired and no attention span.
Yes, HRT increases quality of life for some women, I bet there are many who don't take it and have good health.

[ATB]

The average age of death used to be significantly lower and the average age of menopause much higher, 58. So we didn’t live long after our hormones dropped, just a few years. Through modern medicine and lifestyle changes we live much longer and go through menopause much younger so ‘nature’ actually didn’t intend for us to live long on reduced hormones. Of course many women don’t suffer poor health without HRT. But it’s about risk and statistics and then you make up your own mind what you want to do. There really doesn’t need to be any HRT-bashing or any pressure to go on it either.

[ElkWarning]

The average age of death used to be significantly lower and the average age of menopause much higher, 58. So we didn’t live long after our hormones dropped, just a few years. Through modern medicine and lifestyle changes we live much longer and go through menopause much younger so ‘nature’ actually didn’t intend for us to live long on reduced hormones. Of course many women don’t suffer poor health without HRT. But it’s about risk and statistics and then you make up your own mind what you want to do. There really doesn’t need to be any HRT-bashing or any pressure to go on it either.

The average age of death literally had nothing to do with modern medicine and lifestyle changes, and everything to do with poverty. A quick look at the feudal system and the tombs / graves associated with medieval cathedrals shows rich women living well into their 80s and 90s, i.e. surviving their menopause by several decades. Women didn't 'naturally' die much younger, they were effectively killed by political and cultural systems that enslaved their bodies, and this has been the case since about the 11th century (especially in so-called Christian countries). If we track history, we can see this actually gets worse from Tudor times and can likely be linked to the rise of capitalism, which brought with it even more exploitative practices. It kind of peaks in Victorian England (sorry, not familiar with elsewhere) when, actually, we already have medicine, however, it's also when we have mass urbanisation, extremely poor employment conditions and the workhouse.

In other words, adult women quite 'naturally' spent half their lives bleeding and half their lives menopausal.

[Taz2]

It looks like my thread is off topic now.

Sorry but we often do meander about a bit  on threads Do you feel that you've got some answers though?

[ATB]

Right. Sure. Thanks for the history lesson that I’m already well aware of coming from working class families. The *average* age of death was much younger for most of history, for most women. For various reasons, including but not limited to, improved health & sanitation. Whatever nature intended, it’s factual that few women survived long enough for it to be a problem that was addressed like it is now.

Like I said, whichever way you decide to go, is usually supported on this forum, although HRT is clearly getting bashed on this thread. There’s a whole section for alternatives if you don’t choose HRT. We should support everyone whatever their choice while still sharing facts and data that’s relevant.

[jaypo]

Wow,busy thread,may I put my tuppence worth in??
I think women who want HRT yes,definitely go for it,I am NOT on HRT and I do have to say,at times, I HAVE felt this is the only answer on the forum,I've been on here for a few years now and the women on here have been my saving grace,so I AM NOT knocking the forum,I do understand what KarineT is saying though, I suffered terrible anxiety and depression when I first joined and it did seem to me,it was HRT or nothing,then more anxiety because I was reading that my heart was going to fail or my bones were going to snap,so sometimes it can be confusing,anyway I've managed without HRT but definitely do not dismiss it xx

[Aprilflower]

Average age of death statistics are a red herring.  They are skewed by the very high infant mortality rate.

[ATB]

You can adjust for that. A lot of women died in childbirth. I’m certainly not going to argue about modern medicine improving life expectancy. It’s not worth arguing such an established, well evidenced fact.

[ElkWarning]

You can adjust for that. A lot of women died in childbirth. I’m certainly not going to argue about modern medicine improving life expectancy. It’s not worth arguing such an established, well evidenced fact.

Yeah, sorry about that, probably because I'm a history teacher (so constantly having to deal with students' misconceptions) and before that worked in a research setting for several years. I think I'm pretty accustomed to how 'facts' are bandied about and misrepresented. But I agree with your claim that modern medicine did improve outcomes, however, I would add that the only reason outcomes needed improving was because of other effects of modernisation. I think it's hugely important for women to be empowered to deal with any tosh arising from the 'natural' arguments.

And aye. I agree with others who have said that the emphasis on HRT can be somewhat overwhelming. Obviously, this has been misconstrued as 'an attack'. Interestingly, I've not spoken up before because I'm worried about the hostility this would attract.

[Gnatty]

This is a very very interesting topic. I have found myself wondering at times about the oft quoted women never used to make it much past menopause. Obviously this is really pushed by Meno Drs esp Newson Health etc. What I would like to know is if you factor out women dying in childbirth, what proportion of women reached old age? I always think of say Dickens novels or say Jane Austen. There were always a few old crones popping up here and there. Older women throughout history have had roles to play whether as grandmother or wise old woman with the simmering cauldron haha. I just wonder if they only made up a very small proportion of a given population? As I said, very interesting.

[CrispyChick]

Just adding that I too feel the HRT element of this forum is the focus. The alternatives thread should be for that, alternatives, not the place where those not using HRT should be forced to post, just because they're not using HRT.

The topics are: all things menopause, postmenopause, personal experiences. No topic section is titled HRT

For me, I have to use the alternatives thread as I'm trialling bhrt. I don't see that as 'alternative' simply not mainstream NHS HRT. I for one would love to have conversations with other woman using bhrt... But most are either not on this forum, or stay quiet  .

We are ALL looking for support, irrespective of the journey we choose or, in many cases, are forced to explore.

X

[ATB]

Spoken up about? Sorry I’m not following.

This post was started with a hostile attack on the members of the forum, based on what appears to be a single inaccurate comment elsewhere here. This thread is full of hostility to HRT. So, let’s be fair to everyone including those taking HRT who are being told it’s ‘not natural’. Neither is ibuprofen but we don’t withstand pain because it’s natural.

Take it, don’t take it. You can find advice and support for both here, and plenty of it. Which is great! I don’t see any rule saying you have to post on alternatives section, but they categorise I assume to make it easier to find things. The ‘HRT element’ is dominant because it’s hard when starting out and this is where women have to come for information. I don’t know why it’s a problem honestly, it’s what members seem to need the most help with. It shouldn’t be an issue.

The ‘meno doctors’ ( they were ordinary GPs first and saw a need ) push the statements on mortality and age of meno because they are constantly having to fight against well disproven myths on HRT as they try and help us. Yes they make money from it, should they do it for free? It’s sadly the state of things because of poor care on the NHS. I welcome their help. Maybe one day none of us will have to pay for this because of the work they’re now doing.

[Tora]

I’m very confused with the thread as interesting as it is.

The forum topics are dependent on what we, the members, discuss. It’s lead by demand for knowledge.

I’m just as interested in hearing from member’s who choose to not medicate as I am with those that do. There is no guarantee that any of us will continue on our current path, I’ll jump onto Camel Poop if it’s scientifically proven to help, sod nature’s intention!