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[holidaylover]

Looking for a little bit advice regarding the paying for Care Homes.  An elderly relative will probably need to go into a Care Home in the near future as she is becoming less and less able to look after herself at home.  She will be self funding (don't get me started!), however what I cant seem to find on any of the appropriate websites is how it is paid.  I know it's really expensive and I've heard people commenting that 'they' take ALL your money.  What i cant understand (or maybe I'm just being thick) is do they take all capital at once, up front, or does the resident pay for it monthly like they would a rent?  We are in Scotland, so don't know if there is a difference.
Thank you

[Haydo]

When my mother was in a care home I was invoiced monthly in arrears (I had Power of Attorney) with the monthly fees for the care home plus any extras, such as hairdresser, chiropodist or if they had had to buy any toiletries etc.  I am in England so don’t know if that makes a difference, but wouldn’t have thought so.

[holidaylover]

Thanks for the reply Haydo.  It's not very clear on websites but that makes sense.  I visualised all her money being taken at once and put into some sort of carehome money pot.  It sometimes doesn't pay to have money does it? x

[jillydoll]

Hi.

It’s normally paid monthly. We’ve set up a standing order.

Xx

[Haydo]

No it doesn’t holidaymaker.  Don’t get me started either!  My mother’s house had to be sold to pay for her care home fees. 

[CLKD]

No one has to sell their property unless they fall outside what is allowed; which I can't remember off the top of my head.  Sometimes people sell property in order to keep to a specific standard of care, having enough enables in some cases a better room etc..   And don't get me started either 

If someone needs to go into care, the property cannot be sold if there are others reliant on living there, either a husband/partner or children who have not moved out. 

My Mum is self funding.  But it means that she is subsidising those on social care, which is why I believe that the two levels should never be mixed in the same property.  The fees are taken by Direct Debit and we have never had an Invoice.  Currently she pays £800.00 per week for full board, laundry, heating, electricity and phone in her room.  Bed is changed on a Sat..  She has a small room with French doors on the ground floor, with a toilet next door.  No ensuite available even though she is self funding.  Her own TV and clothing in the wardrobe. 

The local GP surgery over sees the home, it is a legal requirement that each has a Practice close by. 

Some homes have physiotherapist, nursing staff, hairdresser, a library, movie room ........ mayB have a look at Churchill websites to see what is avialalbe.  Mum has to pay extra for chiropody and the hair dresser. 

I would expect ensuite/own room if she were paying in a BUPA or Churchill Nursing home. 

My biggest suggestion is that who ever is looking at 'care', ops for full nursing care and not a 'care home' - where Mum is there are no nurses, even if there were because the Home is classed as 'care' rather than 'full nursing', it wouldn't help residents when they fall etc..  An ambulance would still be required to attend.  Even if nursing care isn't currently required, we will all need more and more help as we age.  A nursing home choice means that residents don't need to move from a care situation.

It will depend on how much it costs as to who is running the Company.  As well as which area the building is in.  Making sure that there is no smell of urine - I don't know how to find out if the home is well staffed.  CQC Reports I have found aren't worth the paper they are written on! Lip service for the government.

[CLKD]

I have found that many people think that going into care is like going on holiday: i.e. B&B or full board.  Forgetting that it's the whole Company that they are paying into.  People say that care is expensive, of course we don't pay as much weekly as one will do in care/nursing home, however: what people don't consider is:

Purchase of property
Putting the property into a suitable situation for a home - i.e. electrics, water, kitchens; new bath/shower rooms.  Lifts where required. 
Continual maintenance: carpets, paint work, utensils; towels, sheets, loo rolls, cleaning equipment .  It all adds up annually.

Plus where required alert mats/protective bedding


Phones, TVs/licence, wifi
Call alarms by the bed

Walkers
Wheelchairs
Sticks


Wages and Insurance for visitors, residents and staff - cooks, cleaners, care/nursing staff, gardeners, odd-job bods

Fire alarms/blankets

Some have a mini bus for which there is insurance etc. required as well as a dedicated driver

I know someone who sold her huge property, bought a small flat near Southampton and went off on a Cruise. Continually.  Everything on board! and cheaper than nursing care ;-)

[Pennyfarthing]

hello HolidayLover.  We had to sell my Mum’s house to pay for her care home fees. Invoiced monthly and paid by Direct Debit.  Mum was in a spotlessly clean but uncaring home for 8 months with tiny meals and  no stimulation. I moved her to a council run home where she again self funded but it was brilliant. The staff were all well trained, attended regular courses and the meals were great.  She was there for 3 years and I cannot speak highly enough of them. I visited her every other day and often had lunch with her.

Your relative will still get their state pension and Attendance Allowance while in the care home. I think you will be looking to pay £900+ a week now and Nursing Homes a hell of a lot more.  Mum’s home was close to the GP practice and nurses and doctors were in and out all the time. One day the care home rang for a nurse and 2 arrived within 20 minutes!! Couldn’t believe it.  She had a stoma and if we needed the Stoma Nurses they came out too and were great. 

I will just post this in case I lose it!

[Pennyfarthing]

The best way to find out what a home is like is to just turn up unannounced (not meal times) and if they don’t let you have a look round they  have something to hide.  I looked at 14 homes over a few weeks and all but 2 of them let me look round.  Any whiff of wee and don’t bother. In 3 years I knew Mum’s home inside out and never once was their a nasty whiff anywhere.  My friend had both parents in at the same time and she said the same.

If you can, speak to the people with family in there.  Don’t bother with Care Home review site as that is all one sided and on the side of the care homes.  Read CQC reports but take them with a huge pinch of salt. 

The system is very wrong because self funders subsidise people who social services fund by something like 34% which is diabolical.  Same rooms, same care, same staff but they get it all paid. 

I totted up what my Mum paid out and it was approaching £150,000 bearing in mind her house was her only asset and she had very little in the bank and was on Pension Credit.

I hope you find somewhere suitable.

[CLKD]

Would your relative be up to respite somewhere, to get a feel of how care works?  Or go along to one of their activities - most homes are happy to allow potential residents to have a morning, lunch and join in - especially those self funding ;-)

[holidaylover]

Thanks everyone for the input.  The prices really are shocking for those who need to self fund.  She has Parkinson's but was admitted for something different.  (A terribly painful and swollen knee).  However, they seem to just be trying to sort the knee to no avail, and don't seem to be taking her Parkinson's into consideration or reviewing her medication.  It really is quite shocking but we have spoken to nurses and still nothing gets done.  We cant see her as there has been a Covid outbreak in the ward.  Her knee is so swollen now she cant get her trousers on and they say she now needs 24hour care.  She was able to go out for coffee a month ago!  I know her Parksinsons will progress, but didn't think it would so quickly and with that, her medication should be changed accordingly. 

[CLKD]

MayB get hold of the Parkinsons Association?  They may be able to push for the correct treatment.  Physiotherapy should be available too.  Yes there will be different funding North of the Border . 

Swelling is a sign of possible infection, has she had any fluids drawn from the area and sent for culture? This can take a while to settle with constant supervision, both with aspiration and gentle physio..  Once any swelling has settled and necessary ABs given to combat any infection, a steroid injection can be inserted: a little WD40 : under GA.  Looks like North of the Border ain't much better than down here!

[Pennyfarthing]

MayB get hold of the Parkinsons Association?  They may be able to push for the correct treatment.  Physiotherapy should be available too.  Yes there will be different funding North of the Border . 

Swelling is a sign of possible infection, has she had any fluids drawn from the area and sent for culture? This can take a while to settle with constant supervision, both with aspiration and gentle physio..  Once any swelling has settled and necessary ABs given to combat any infection, a steroid injection can be inserted: a little WD40 : under GA.  Looks like North of the Border ain't much better than down here!

You are joking about physio CLKD!!  My friend has just had a new hip which she paid for privately having worked her whole life as a nurse in the Army and then for the NHS until she retired.  She paid privately because she could not stand the pain any longer and also she knows that she would get physio straight away but in the NHS she would be lucky to see a physio if she was in there for a week. She got her first physio session just hours after her op.

[Haydo]

I would agree with everything that Pennyfarthing has said in her two posts this afternoon with regard to looking at and assessing the homes.  I looked at probably 10 different homes and my mum ended up in a council run home, and I felt happy that she was very well looked after there.   Her house had to be sold and  Mum had exactly the same room and care as those whose care home fees were funded.

[CLKD]

 BUPA-type nursing homes have daily physiotherapists.  I'm not talking NHS here.

When I was a secretary patients would undergo physiotherapy prior to hip/knee replacements twice a week as an out patient.  They would be admitted the day B4 surgery, be checked by the physio and anaesthetist and kept in hospital for at least 10 days after.  They couldn't go home until they could manage stairs and hold a kettle.  Now it seems that patients are chucked out of the Ward in order to meet government targets.

I wonder where the Consultants are in all this lack of care in the NHS?  It is they after all, that devise a treatment plan.