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[JoannFran]

Good morning everyone

I’m having a Terrible time at the moment with sleep issues. I’m super anxious and feel in a constant state of panic. I’ve started on 2 pumps of estrogel, some beta blockers and having CBT.

Over the last week I’ve had about 2 hours sleep a night. Just as I’m dropping off I wake up with a jolt. Sometimes it feels like it’s in my head, sometimes my throat and I repeatedly swallow and sometimes my stomach feels like it’s dropping.

This then leads to total panic and then I’m scared of falling asleep.

I’ve googled it and Hypnic jerks come up but that says a falling sensation and it’s not really that but a weird head sensation. I’m now worried about nocturnal seizures 

Has anyone else experienced anything like this? It’s so scary. And I dread bedtime 

Thank you x

[Suzysheep]

That sounds really awful for you, I’m sorry you’re struggling with it.
I get that sort of thing when I’m over tired… I drop off then my body jolts me awake.
I’ve been suffering with awful anxiety since stopping HRT 8 weeks ago. My dr prescribed me some antihistamine tablets called phenergan. They have really helped with sleep, and the anxiety. I think you can buy them over the counter too…. But they are quite sedating…. And I’m tired most of the next day, so it’s a bit of a problem if you have to work etc.

[sheila99]

That happens to me but it's occasionally rather than a regular occurrence. How long have you been on hrt? It didn't make much difference to my anxiety and insomnia in the first month but it did improve over the next 2.

[CLKD]

It happens to me 4/7.  I either step off a kerb  which wakes me: or I have a flash back  , or ........ no rhyme nor reason.  Don't let it keep you awake, it should be a sudden occurrence - over and done with.  I am so used to it now.  DH used to bowl overarm in the years he played cricket 

[Gilla999]

Hypnic jerks aren't only a falling sensation, they're what you describe too. I suffer from them but only ever when going through periods of extreme anxiety - for example if I have tapered from my antidepressant too quickly or in the past when very sleep deprived or my estrogen was low. All of these things cause issues with serotonin and for me that seems to be what triggers them and then it becomes a viscous circle.

I think trying to address the underling cause is the best way to approach xx

[JoannFran]

Thank you so much for your replies.

Very reassured to hear that it does sound like Hypnic jerks. It always happens just as I’m falling asleep so it does make sense that that’s what it is. I guess nocturnal seizures wouldn’t wake me up like that. So hard to not get anxious about it and then that makes it worse.  I’ve only been on HRT for 2 weeks and it hasn’t helped so far.

My body is also vibrating/buzzing when I’m trying to fall asleep. I’ve never been this anxious for so long before so I think my body is reacting in all kinds of weird ways.

Thank you for the reassurance ladies. Very Much appreciated xx

[Floo36]

I am suffering with the jolts just as getting drowsy and mine are caused by low Estrogen.  I don’t sleep without help because I’m either completely wide awake and don’t get sleepy or I get sleepy to be jolted awake so no sleep at all after that.  I also get like electric zaps in the daytime.  I know that once the HRT is right then they will go.

I sympathise with you they are awful, not sleeping is torture. 

[Gilla999]

I had it from low estrogen too Floo - my suspicion is that it could be to do with Estrogen's connection/affect on Serotonin, because I've also had it in the past when I've tapered too quickly from my anti depressants.

JoanneFran do you think your HRT dose could be too low?

Another thing to mention is my understanding is that beta blockers can cause insomnia - are you aware of that? It's why I've always had to avoid them as an anti anxiety medication xx

[CLKD]

My betablockas never caused insomnia.  My neighbour however, when he took the same brand and dosage, was hyper 

Without my anxiety anxiety medication I wouldn't be here.

[JoannFran]

Could possibly be on too low a dose.  I'm on 2 pumps to start with.  I'll see the month out and then see if I think it needs increasing.

I had no idea that Beta Blockers can cause insomnia!  If I think about it, my sleep has definitely been worse since taking them.  They've done their job in lowering my blood pressure tho.  Dr did say that I probably wouldn't need to be on them for long so hopefully that's the case.  I can't cope with this no sleep situation 

Thanks ladies xx

[Gilla999]

Yes they definitely can, it's a known side effect due to their interaction with melatonin production - your doctor should have told you that 

It may be that they have caused the insomnia and then the repeated lack of sleep is causing the hypnic jerks - that's what happens to me also if i have periods of no sleep. Repeated sleep deprivation causes changes in the brain that relate to the fight or flight mechanism and part of that may well be causing the hypnic jerks. I would definitely think about that before adjusting your HRT dose just in case you make things worse by doing that unnecessarily. If you do have to stay on the beta blockers long term it's best to take them first thing in the morning and there is some evidence to say that melatonin supplementation can help combat the insomnia effect of them. If you go down this route your doctor can prescribe proper melatonin for you and not the rubbish you can buy online (I take it - it's called Circadin).

Good luck xx

[JoannFran]

Thanks so much Gilla999. That’s really helpful. My dr didn’t tell me they caused insomnia and he also told me to take them at night  .  I’ve started taking them in the morning to see if that makes a difference.

Makes sense that the lack of sleep would cause the jerks. I feel like I’m in a constant state of fight or flight at the moment so that can’t be helping either.

Thank you again for your advice xx

[JoannFran]

Also would you mind telling me the mg of melatonin in the circadin? I’ve got some from Spain but they are 1.85mg of melatonin. I have no idea if that’s the right dosage or too low/high.

Thank you x

[Taz2]

Hi JoannFran - which type of beta blocker do you have? My partner found that propranolol really disturbed his sleep but is fine on antenolol. It might be worth changing to see if another suits you better. 

[JoannFran]

Thanks Taz2. I’m on bisoprolol fumarate.

I’ve got a review with my dr in a couple of weeks so if this Continues I’ll defo be asking him to try a different one! X