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[Floo36]

Finding the right type and dose of Estrogen is the tricky bit but don’t give up.  In peri blood tests won’t really tell you if you absorb transdermals because of fluctuations, I’m sure they can help post menopause though, this is my experience of blood tests anyway and I won’t be doing any more until post if I have to. 

Some of us need to use an awful lot of Estrogen to treat symptoms because of absorption issues and how out bodies metabolise.  I was afraid but I’m not anymore because I am just trying to give back what I have lost, nothing more just enough to feel well again.  I’m not there yet but finally feel I’m getting there, there is light in the very distant tunnel finally after 10 years the last 2 1/2 from hell. 

We will get there.

[Mindfulmoomins]

Oh Floo, so pleased you feel you are getting somewhere. It’s so important isn’t it to feel there is some momentum in a helpful direction.

Not sure the bloods would be that helpful either but if the reading is low I guess it might suggest I am not absorbing well? Xx

[Floo36]

Trouble is the reading may be high which will mislead you into thinking you absorb especially if you are still unwell.  I have had around 13 Estrogen bloods done over the last few years and kept being told all is normal or high yet I was still suffering.  I finally got one that was low that proved to myself more than anything that it was just fluctuations and not how my bloods really were, on the same dose hrt they ranged from 400 to 5000.  In peri go by symptoms going bloods have made me suffer longer than I should.  My menopause doctor can see that now also and we are going by symptoms.  I still have severe symptoms and have a way to go but I’m improving and hoping to get well soon. 

I feel for you but please keep going to find the one that works for you. 

[Mindfulmoomins]

Thanks Floo, that’s helpful.

I have been trying to go mainly by symptoms but it’s so tricky as I feel really low and anxious so the meno clinic said it might be worth me seeing a psychiatrist. Not sure how I feel about that. It feels hormonal and I am reluctant to keep increasing antidepressants.

They also want me to give the increase in oestrogen longer.

Trying to keep things in the day at the moment is hard when I feel so unlike me but I am doing my best xx

[Suzysheep]

We can only do our best.

Would you mind saying what anti depressants you are taking, as I have had no difference at all with the citalopram I’m on.

[Mindfulmoomins]

Hi Suzy,

I was always on 40 mg Fluoxetine (for many years). Then when peri started and after months of struggling the GP added 15 mg of mirtazapine. This started to help about 4-6 weeks later.

So, when I started struggling again the Gp suggested going up in Mirtazapine to 30 mgs. I’m not sure that has helped sadly so now the fluoxetine has been increased to 60 mgs 3 and a half weeks ago.

It’s not what I want or at all where I thought I would be but I feel so desperate to feel better xx

[EllaAurora]

Thanks Floo, that’s helpful.

I have been trying to go mainly by symptoms but it’s so tricky as I feel really low and anxious so the meno clinic said it might be worth me seeing a psychiatrist. Not sure how I feel about that. It feels hormonal and I am reluctant to keep increasing antidepressants.

They also want me to give the increase in oestrogen longer.

Trying to keep things in the day at the moment is hard when I feel so unlike me but I am doing my best xx

I agree, going by the symptoms is not easy and takes a lot of time as well. I've managed to control now the worst debilitating symptoms but the lingering ones are still significantly impacting quality of life and I don't seem to get a good understanding of whether I need more oestrogen, or if it needs to be delivered differently to create more stability, or if I actually would need to adjust dose according to my own cycle. I can clearly feel my own cycle in the background and it feels it completely overrides the HRT. So then the dose that is right in the first week of cycle may already be too high during ovulation etc. Last month I felt exceptionally bad mid cycle which I concluded was that I had too high o although I had kept the Estrogel dose stable.. seems endless struggle with peri.. hoping so much to soon reach the actual menopause so that things would settle.

In your case, I guess its good to follow the advice and give the increased oestradiol more time to work. Do you feel any improvement at all since the increase or exactly the same? If at least small improvement, it might be a signal that you're on your way to settle but just need more time. I suppose seeing the psychiatrist wouldn't hurt, but I can understand you're not that keen. But perhaps you could find a psychiatrist with experience in menopause related mood issues? Talking to someone who'd really know what happens in brain during this time might actually be a good idea.

[Mindfulmoomins]

Thanks Ella, that’s a really good way to look at it.

I am not sure I am feeling better on more estrogen sadly. I have less aches I think though but mood wise I am not sure there’s improvement unfortunately and that is what I would dearly love to see get better.

I am totally the same; I don’t know whether I need more e or less. My hunch is more but it’s so hard to know in peri!

Xx

[EllaAurora]

It seems the mood symptoms are the hardest to treat and last ones to resolve with HRT, unfortunately.  I have the same experience, physical symptoms have pretty much gone but I'm stuck with the anxiety, which is just not letting go.

In my case, I do realise it's also partly because I'm paying so much attention to my mood and constantly assessing how I'm feeling. I should be focusing more on other things as I realise every time something else truly catches my attention, I forget how I feel and then realise that I actually have felt better during that time. Its just that now its already been so many months with this struggle that I've become accustomed to this, which is horrible. Its like almost being addicted to the constant self observation. I wish I would learn to let it go and stop paying so much attention, I'm sure the symptoms would clear on their own time.

Do you have a timeline agreed with clinic how long you should wait for improvement with the current regime? Another though just came to my mind: are you sleeping well? I find it helps so much if I can get a good night sleep. I've understood that if estrogen is at the right level, we should sleep well. I'm clearly not yet there as I wake up most nights somewhere around 3-5 am, which I think is a classical sign of low oestrogen. If I'm lucky I'll fall asleep again, but even in that case, its not yet the same as having a full nights sleep without interruptions. Wish I'll get to that point eventually.

[Suzysheep]

Hi Suzy,

I was always on 40 mg Fluoxetine (for many years). Then when peri started and after months of struggling the GP added 15 mg of mirtazapine. This started to help about 4-6 weeks later.

So, when I started struggling again the Gp suggested going up in Mirtazapine to 30 mgs. I’m not sure that has helped sadly so now the fluoxetine has been increased to 60 mgs 3 and a half weeks ago.


It’s so difficult to get the right balance isn’t it. My dr has suggested sticking with the citalopram as it can take 4-6 weeks to feel the full benefit.

…. But then without the right hormonal balance are ADs enough on their own?

It’s not what I want or at all where I thought I would be but I feel so desperate to feel better xx

It’s so difficult to get the right balance isn’t it. My dr has suggested sticking with the citalopram as it can take 4-6 weeks to feel the full benefit.

…. But then without the right hormonal balance are ADs enough on their own?

It’s not what I want or at all where I thought I would be but I feel so desperate to feel better xx

[Mindfulmoomins]

I am waking at 5 am Ella which is hard going. I agree, a good night’s sleep helps so much.

I am also really vigilant around my mood (as it’s so low). It’s felt so long for me to feeling rubbish so it’s really hard not to monitor it.

I too am getting better at distraction but it hurts my heart that I have to distract myself from how I feel for most of the time.

Yes, I think I remember mood stuff taking a while to get better.

My current worry is ‘I can’t keep feeling like this, what if I feel worse?’, along with moments of ‘this too shall pass’. I have some good mindfulness techniques that help me stay in the present but it’s like the currents of this low mood are so strong it’s hard to stay in the present.

One day at a time and this, yes even this, shall pass (saying that to remind myself!). X

[Suzysheep]

It seems the mood symptoms are the hardest to treat and last ones to resolve with HRT, unfortunately.  I have the same experience, physical symptoms have pretty much gone but I'm stuck with the anxiety, which is just not letting go.

In my case, I do realise it's also partly because I'm paying so much attention to my mood and constantly assessing how I'm feeling. I should be focusing more on other things as I realise every time something else truly catches my attention, I forget how I feel and then realise that I actually have felt better during that time. Its just that now its already been so many months with this struggle that I've become accustomed to this, which is horrible. Its like almost being addicted to the constant self observation. I wish I would learn to let it go and stop paying so much attention, I'm sure the symptoms would clear on their own time.

Do you have a timeline agreed with clinic how long you should wait for improvement with the current regime? Another though just came to my mind: are you sleeping well? I find it helps so much if I can get a good night sleep. I've understood that if estrogen is at the right level, we should sleep well. I'm clearly not yet there as I wake up most nights somewhere around 3-5 am, which I think is a classical sign of low oestrogen. If I'm lucky I'll fall asleep again, but even in that case, its not yet the same as having a full nights sleep without interruptions. Wish I'll get to that point eventually.

I agree Ella… we get stuck in this familiar pattern . If my mind is off my symptoms I’m distracted and not so bad…. But when I internally analyse… I’m back to feeling sorry for myself.
Sigh

[EllaAurora]

I am waking at 5 am Ella which is hard going. I agree, a good night’s sleep helps so much.

I am also really vigilant around my mood (as it’s so low). It’s felt so long for me to feeling rubbish so it’s really hard not to monitor it.

I too am getting better at distraction but it hurts my heart that I have to distract myself from how I feel for most of the time.

Yes, I think I remember mood stuff taking a while to get better.

My current worry is ‘I can’t keep feeling like this, what if I feel worse?’, along with moments of ‘this too shall pass’. I have some good mindfulness techniques that help me stay in the present but it’s like the currents of this low mood are so strong it’s hard to stay in the present.

One day at a time and this, yes even this, shall pass (saying that to remind myself!). X

Based on what I know, 5am wake ups would indicate that the balance is not yet there (oestrogen too low). Unless, of course, you are an early riser naturally? I'm not, I used to love sleeping 9 hours and the morning sleep was the sweetest.. now I've had these full 9 hour nights only very few over the past 5 months, so its really starting to impact my mood too.

You are spot on saying its so sad we need to distract ourselves from how we feel.  I just wish I could get back the ability to relax and be peacefully with my thoughts again. I used to treasure the peaceful moments when I was alone at the house, relaxing and reflecting.. now I'm very uncomfortable even being alone, not to even mention I could truly relax. Sometimes I still can't understand what is happening here, and how could I suddenly be like this?

Trying to get back to the 'this too shall pass' mood now. I realise I start to really feel sorry for myself.

Take care and have as peaceful evening as possible!xxx

[Mindfulmoomins]

Ella, I identify so much with everything you have said.

I too feel scared of being alone but that’s not really me. I’m an introvert who loves the peacefulness of being alone in the house.

I too long to feel at peace with my thoughts too.

5 am waking isn’t me either. I loooove my sleep. Apparently, there’s a book called something like ‘The 5am club’ about the benefits of rising early. I am not convinced! I guess if it’s a choice it feels different.

Are you working? I am off work due to my symptoms which is both a help and contributes to everything.

I think it’s ok to feel sorry for yourself. You are a human and you are not feeling good. It’s natural to feel sorry about that and wish it was different right now.

I hope you have a peaceful evening too. Thinking of you xx

[Nas]

Hi all,
Another one here who is suffering from the hideous horror pause 😢
I’ve upped my patch to 100, but my sleep is appalling and I’m exhausted. Just started back at work in a school and wondering how the hell I'm going to manage.

How hard can it be to get the damm dose of  Oestrogen right? Why is it taking so long? I’m on year 3 of hell with symptoms and little respite in between.

Everyone at work looked so fresh faced today and I felt knackered before I left the house!

I’m not a fan of anti depressants tbh, they scare me.

Figured if the 100 patch doesn’t sort things, it’s over to lenzetto, then oral.

I empathise with you all. It’s extremely tough to navigate through this journey.

Xxx 🌸