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[Lamplighter]

Hi everyone, should really have posted this in The Burning Club, but fewer people read there and wanted to check with as many people as possible.

Some time ago I tried Vagifem and discontinued it as I was suffering really bad vulval burning as a result.  Estriol cream also caused burning.  And I found that nearly all vaginal moisterisers (eg Replens, Vagisil, Hyalofemme, Regelle etc), and nearly all the emollients also caused vulval burning, eventually if not immediately.

I subsequently had a labiaplasty in a somewhat desperate attempt to ease the labial irritation from which I'd been suffering for years, and the consultant told me to use baby wipes instead of loo paper.  Which I dutifully did, and ended up suffering the most agonising burning I've ever experienced.  Was prescribed Instillagel (a type of topical anaesthetic) for the pain, which eventually diminished over time as I healed.

Some time later I had the bright idea to wonder whether it wasn't in fact any of the medications but the baby wipes which were causing the burning (I used fraganced one initially).  Switched to 'sensitive' and then 'pure' and noticed that the burning tended to coincide with when I was using baby wipes (I wasn't using them all the time, only occasionally).

I've also since started using Vagifem again and there is no burning.  Hmmmmm.

I wonder if anyone else has noticed that it might not in fact be HRT preparations that are responsible for various side effects, but some apparently innocuous other thing we're using, without realizing it at the time?   And if so, what?

All opinions, ideas, and suggestions gratefully anticipated 

LL xx

[Gynaikeíos]

Hello Lamplighter,  for me, it's fragranced panty liners.
I have been trying different sorts, and definitely the fragrance brings on burning. Any that promise to lock away moisture into the pad are avoided for obvious reasons, so fragrance is the culprit.

All I need them for is to be a little cushioning and to help keep the vagisan moisturising whatever I am doing. I use vagisan externally in between  applications of Estriol if I am going to be sitting down for a long time for work, and where reapplication is not practical. No incontinence needs (so far), and honestly, women don't pong do we!

I could never wear knickers containing manmade fibre. These days I would rather go without than wear manmade underwear again.

I think baby wipes fabric does rub. Not every baby likes them, I know that. I cannot stand the fragrance with any of them. The sensitive sort contains something that is not skin friendly.

I  wince in sympathy for your needing surgery. Ouch!

 

[CLKD]

Criky! baby wipes on such a sensitive area 

'vagifem' and 'ovestin' can cause burning initially as the vaginal tissues are thin.  Some find that bubble bath, soaps, talcs can cause the vaginal areas to be very sore.  I am lucky in that I can use bubble bath, some find that warm water showers are best and patting the tender area gently .

Your GP could have referred U to a menopause clinic for advice.  Surgery seems rather drastic, has it helped at all?

So - warm water gently poured over the chest so that it runs down into the pubic region then pat cry.  Use the 'vagifem' plus pain relief if the bladder feels irritated.  It takes a while to ease symptoms so once U find something that helps, stick with it.

Let us know how you get on.

[Lamplighter]

Gynaikeios thanks for commenting - sympathies with the fragranced panty liners - you have to wonder why the makers don't realize that added fragrance (and chemicals in general come to that) are bound to have an adverse effect on our vulnerable parts.  I confess that I liked the idea of a mild fragrance (I tended to use baby wipes for a lot of different things) but have since realized how lethal they can be.  Ok if you're younger and skin isn't so irritated by such things - perhaps someone ought to come out with a range of these things specifically geared to menopausal women - would probably make a killing!

Your comment about manmade fibre has me thinking - I haven't worn knickers for over seven years now because they irritate, but in fact because it's so difficult for me to find ones that fit (ie that don't disappear up my backside but actually cover the bum cheeks) I've been stuck with certain brands (in fact no longer available) that are pretty obviously synthetic fibre.  Perhaps I could stitch myself some cotton knickers and see what happens - a bit of pressure down there actually helps with the labial irritation.

Got to feel sorry for babies, they can't tell mum that the damn wipes are burning - and worse, the burning, in my case at least, didn't happen immediately on contact but some time after, so it took a while to make the connection - I expect it could be the same with babies and therefore difficult to see that wipes are actually causing problems.

xx

[Lamplighter]

CLKD thanks also for replying - I had just assumed (as the gynae consultant recommended it too) that baby wipes were good for sensitive areas (as opposed to general wipes).  Makes me lose confidence in her that's for sure. 

It was me who asked for a labiaplasty - my GP wasn't very enthusiastic about the idea but did write me a referral so I could look into it.  I figured that as it was the labia flapping about in the breeze that were causing me all this constant irritation and discomfort, getting rid of them might just solve that problem.  Wishful thinking - I think it has probably helped, but I'm still getting similar sensations which drive me batty, despite having stabilized as much as I can be with HRT.

I don't get the burning anymore as I've stopped with the baby wipes completely - but I do wonder if there isn't something else going on of which I'm unaware, that might be contributing to the ongoing irritation.  That's why I asked if anyone had discovered a connection between vulval reactions and things they use or do on a day to day basis.

Thanks for the advice too 

xx

[CLKD]

Vaginal atrophy!  R U in the UK?  Your GP should be able to prescribe appropriate preparations to ease symptoms.   

'sylc' and 'yes' products which are moistorisors may well help on the outer labial area, but won't replace oestrogen which is often the cause of burning, the need2P, dryness.  Have you read our 'bladder issues' and 'vaginal atrophy' threads?

Dryness + dryness = itchyness ?

[Gynaikeíos]

Pure cotton gusset at the  least in knickers Lamplighter 
I am staying with the unscented cotton top liners now - but they cost more than scented and could be thinner. I think the makers secretly know the market.

If you feel you are stabilised with HRT but still in discomfort have a read through the threads CLKD says.

The  'burning club' thread, too.

[Lamplighter]

Thanks CLKD and Gynaikeios.   

I have already perused all the threads (many times over!) and joined the FB VA group - and have tried every moisturiser, emollient, vaginal cream/gel/ointment including estriol, and CLKD Sylk and Yes, plus plenty that have nothing to do with it (eg coconut oil, even antihistamine cream, lanolin - and no I'm not allergic to it, I use it in my hand cream) and the only one that vaguely helped - with the original dryness anyway - was KY jelly.

I know it's oestrogen related (or at least it was) and that's why I've been running around in circles trying to find an HRT regime that works - for all my postmenopausal symptoms (given that the one that did work for me was discontinued a few years ago).  The labiaplasty together with the HRT have made it more bearable, but it's still constantly irritating and uncomfortable. 

But this thread was intended to find out about what products other women have found that are responsible for irritation, discomfort, even pain, products that you wouldn't expect to cause that, or even that you'd think were meant to help.  Any other personal experiences anyone?

[Limpy]

For me perfumed panty liners are horrible, they just create so much vulval discomfort.
Ok the nether regions may smell nice BUT they are are uncomfortable and do not welcome any attention at all.

[Katty]

I'd stay a million miles away from baby wipes. They often irritate babies. I used to used a water spray to clean my children as the wipes caused nappy rash. Yes vaginal moisturiser can't be beaten in my opinion. It has to be the moisturiser and not the lubricant. Also try Diprobase Emolient ointment in a tube. Not the cream. The ointment has a consistency like vaseline. It creates a barrier against urine and calms itching and inflammation down. You can smear a small amount every day. This combination seems to provide protection for the area. The Yes internally and slightly on the outer edge of the vagina. The Diprobase around the opening and in the folds. It gets more blooming attention than my face these days 😁

[Haydo]

Hi Lamplighter

Like you I have tried every moisturiser going, and spent a fortune in the process.  I also don’t wear underwear and live in skirts and dresses.  The only thing I have found to soothe is hydromol, which I plaster on, as well as using vagifem, but I still suffer with burning and irritation. 

One thing which you would not expect to irritate/burn is some brands of toilet paper.  I only buy plain unscented white, but during lockdown, and the madness of toilet paper stockpiling, I was unable to get my usual brand and had to buy another.  I then realised, after using a couple of rolls, that it was that which was making things even worse than usual.  I resorted to spraying with the shower head until I could get hold of my usual brand!

[Lamplighter]

Hello Strongkat, Katty and Haydo, thanks for your comments.  Katty - yeah the amount of attention such a small part gets  .

Haydo, funnily enough Hydromol was the only emollient I tried that didn't sting or burn - but sadly didn't do much for me either.  I came to the conclusion after trying just about every product on the market that the problem was an internal thing and wasn't much helped by applying topical stuff.

I think CLKD may be right when she says that things like Vagifem burn initially because the vaginal walls (and external surrounds) are so thin and sensitive that they react to everything.  The solution being to plump it all up with a ton of oestrogen.  Perhaps you could try systemic HRT and see if that helps (if you aren't already)?

Interestingly, re loo paper - when you think about it, there's such a variation (some are even fragranced though they don't actually say so, you can tell) that it makes sense some might irritate while others don't.  Who'd have thought we'd have to quality check toilet paper for heaven's sake!

xx

[Limpy]

One thing which has helped me when showering/bathing is to only use plain water around the vulval area. Oh and unscented toilet paper is essential.

[Haydo]

Yes, I too only use plain water, no washing of hair in the shower and only use hydromol to wash everywhere else.  I have recently been prescribed by a gynaecologist to use a pea sized amount of ovestin every other day externally, which I am persevering with,  though I haven’t noticed much difference as yet, other than when I first started using it it made me burn more, but that has now stopped, so maybe it’s starting to help.  Unfortunately I am deemed too old (64) to try systemic HRT plus my sister has had breast cancer, so two no nos as far as the medical profession is concerned. 

I am waiting to see a vulval dermatologist in the hope they may be able to help, as the gynaecologist was at a bit of a loss other than prescribing the ovestin and telling me to use dermovate, which I’d already been prescribed by my GP, but which I am only using when absolutely necessary as I’m worried about thinning the skin.   

I now make sure I have a good supply of the right toilet paper, though I don’t want to be accused of stockpiling!

[Lamplighter]

Hello again Strongkat and Haydo - I sort of knew about just using plain water for washing, but hadn't thought at all about shampoo which could makes its way down there during a shower - what a faf this all is!  You'd think that the medics could come up with something that addresses these issues  .

Haydo, that's a shame about not being able to try systemic HRT - personally I don't think 64 is too old to start (I'm 65 - but have been on HRT for seven years so can just keep going) but convincing your gp could be difficult.  However, the breast cancer connection is a worry  . 

As an aside, has anyone suggested vulvodynia to you in relation to the burning and irritation?  Apparently amitryptiline (an anti-depressant) in very low doses can help - might be worth looking into if you haven't already. 

By the way, does the dermovate help?

xx