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[Chrixx]

Thank you ladies for this post. My anxiety was going through roof and so was my ragging about nearly everything. From today I will tapper down as I was increasing thinking that was answer. Yesterday I realised I was shaky and anxious most in morning after using 3 sprays but after lunch was feeling calmer. So that must be when spray is wearing off. So glad to find post.

[Gilla999]

Always nice to hear a post has helped!

What I've learnt is that every woman is so unique and while for some increasing E is the answer, I've observed others here and people I know really struggle with too high E but not realise that's the cause.

From my own personal experience I would try reducing slowly... any quick moves and you might cause the opposite problem, even if it is too high at the moment. Good luck xx

[Evangelista]

Just a quick tip if you're suffering with constipation.  Try eating kiwi fruit, one every other day should help.  Apparently progesterone (and I know we're talking about oestrogen but I'm applying a peri woman's logic here!) causes slow transit, which basically means that your system works ok till it gets to the last bit, and then transit through the lower bowel slows right down.  Drinking lots doesn't help by that point so you need to eat something that retains the moisture and has some fibre, and kiwi fruit seems to be the answer.

I tend to eat a satsuma every other day and that usually helps, but when I changed from Femoston to utrogestan and Lenzetto I suffered really badly with a slow bum, as I tend to coquettishly describe it..... I saw something about slow transit and kiwi fruit on a Facebook menopause group and tried it, and it works.  Worth a go unless you dislike or are allergic to kiwi fruit.

[Gilla999]

Thanks for the tip! I'm actually going back to the specialist tomorrow because this is still such a problem for me since starting HRT. The only relief I get is about 4 days when my period arrives and briefly after ovulation. Outside of that I don't feel the urge to go at ALL - it's really quite bad.

There's a lot of research coming out saying high estrogen and not progesterone is the culprit, as there are estrogen receptors in the gut which get turned off by high amounts of estrogen, reducing the motility causing slow transit. But whether it's estrogen or progesterone I have tried everything under the sun you can think of (food and drugs!) and none make any difference but I have NOT tried Kiwi fruit so I will certainly be giving that a go especially as I love Kiwi fruit! Thanks very much for the suggestion 

[Evangelista]

No problem,  tips are always worth passing on.

Good luck on all counts!

[Wrensong]

Gilla, don't want to derail this thread but wanted to say I sympathise with what you say here . . .

Outside of that I don't feel the urge to go at ALL - it's really quite bad.

There's a lot of research coming out saying high estrogen and not progesterone is the culprit, as there are estrogen receptors in the gut which get turned off by high amounts of estrogen, reducing the motility causing slow transit.

Yes, a heartsink moment when I first found articles a while ago implicating oestrogen (as well as has long been known - progesterone) in slow transit, confirming my own experience that oestrogen's slowing effects on gut motility are dose dependent.  What I don't understand - though the hypothyroid-HRT complication is probably a factor - is why only some of us are badly affected.  A large number of women on here take quite hefty doses of oestrogen yet only a few report it seizes up their gut, making it resistant to all known management strategies & a lot of creative thinking .

I hope you find the kiwi fruit help.
Wx

[Gilla999]

Wrensong I could not agree with you more. I have also wondered why lots of women don't seem to be as affected by it and yet I am so sensitive to the issue and it's literally like all of the muscles/nerves which exist in the digestive tract are completely switched off. Through my own experiments over the last 9 months I am absolutely certain that the cause is my HRT. I also used to suffer from it to a lesser extent in the very early stages of my Peri when my own natural estrogen soared every month in the last two weeks of my cycle (so it's not just HRT related - even my own estrogen causes it when it's high).

 I am a bit lost with how to treat it as I have tried every possible solution I have been given or read about.... Except for Kiwi fruit!! So onwards with that I go!

[Evangelista]

I suffered with constipation for years and couldn't find a cause. This was well before being peri and also whilst not taking any hormones via contraception.
It coincided with living alone for the first time and having what I felt was a high fibre diet.
Years later and it eventually settled down a bit, but the real game changer for me was eating a satsuma every other day.
I alternate between cereal and fruit for breakfast one day,  and toast the next. If we have bacon sandwiches or poached egg on toast at the weekend and I forget to have a satsuma I notice the difference.
During the first month on the utro and Lenzetto I was more bunged than I had been for years, so I tried kiwi fruit as well as satsumas and it worked for me.
We are all different but sharing ideas is the one thing we do well I think! :-)

[Wrensong]

I feel your pain Gilla & yes to our own hormones also affecting gut function in fertile years.  If you are not yet postmenopause the problem can be even harder to manage.

Evangelista, glad to know you've found something that works for you. 

We are all different but sharing ideas is the one thing we do well I think!

I agree & this forum is a Godsend for that.
Wx

[DottyP]

Hi, just jumping on the Lenzetto train!  I was on Oestrogel and made the leap across to Lenzetto just before Christmas.  I was on one pump of gel and the GP told me to take one spray of Lenzetto, which I duly have done and so many of my symptoms returned.  I have been really struggling so re mortgaged my house (Only half joking) and paid for a video consult with one of Dr Naomi Potter’s dr’s at Menopause Care.  I had the call this morning.  She told me that because Lenzetto is still fairly new to the UK market they are still trying to work it all out but that whereas when it came onto the market it was thought that one spray equalled two gel pumps they are now thinking that one spray can equal as little as half a pump of gel.  She said it’s individual but most likely that one spray is roundly the same as half to one pump of gel.    She said my symptoms had come back because I had effectively reduced my already low dose to even lower.

So, I have upped my dose from today to two sprays but reading the comments on here I thought I would mention it because if two sprays of Lenzetto is equal to 1.5 to 2 pumps of gel (has my maths worked that out correctly?) then it could be your symptoms are due to too little oestrogen rather than too much.

I’m Uber sensitive to these things too so I’m already concerned that two pumps are going to be too much but when I asked her what to expect, she said I may get headaches and sore boobs for the first 7-10 days of dose increase but that should settle and by two weeks my levels should be more settled. 

I also asked if I should split the dose and she said no.  Because I would still be getting the same amount of oestrogen and Lenzetto is known to be good at spreading across the day - better than gel for that. 

I don’t know if any of the above is right but have done a lot of research myself and some of the things she said was news to me - the spray dosage for one.  She also said I should be using 200mg Utrogestan vaginally which was news to me and when I queried it she asked if it was the Newson website I’d read a differing amount on.  She said she worked there last year but the BMS has said it’s looking more likely that a higher dose of Progesterone is needed vaginally.  This doesn’t make any sense to me and because I hate Utrogestan I would rather pay for an annual ultrasound scan to check my lining thickness than go through double the dose of utrogestan.

Sorry, long reply but hopefully helpful?

[Gilla999]

Evangelista yes on the sharing of tips!! You never know when it's going to help someone out. I am so grateful for all the information that has been shared on this site, I'd have been lost without it. A satsuma and a kiwi every day for me it is then!

Dotty I agree on the dosing not being clear. From what I'm observing it really seems to vary among women - some women seem to absorb some products better than others. I started on Estradot and I was still highly symptomatic, it just didn't work for me. As soon as I switched to Lenzetto on the same dose it worked almost immediately. All a bit of trial and error with a bit of misery for us thrown in until we get there!

In case it helps, according to Louise Newsom's new revised data sheet, 1 spray of Lenzetto is equivalent to 1-1.5 doses of Oestrogel / 2-3 sprays Lenzetto are equivalent to 2 doses Oestrogel.

https://balance-menopause.com/uploads/2021/10/Equivalent-doses.pdf

[DottyP]

Hello again.  So I’ve had the most awful 10 days.  it started with some of my symptoms coming back like really itchy skin, headaches, chills and lethargy and kept increasing until I become so dopey I could barely keep my eyes open - had to stop driving.  I have felt SO unwell, like all of my symptoms and more came crashing back at once with a huge smack in the face.  It felt like I was in a sudden withdrawal.  Both my GP and Meno Specialist said it sounded like either I had had a huge drop in oestrogen myself and/or the spray wasn’t working properly.   I have hesitantly started back on two sprays of a new bottle but my meno doc said to go back to three sprays for a few days, if that wasn’t working to go up to four sprays and if I felt worse to go down to two!   I am too scared to go back to three let alone try four incase it was because it was too much oestrogen rather than too little.  I’m not getting a blood test for another 10 days so I don’t know for sure what’s going on but I’ve been on two sprays for 3 days now and yesterday morning I was so shaky and anxious with a racing heart I had to go to the doctor to get my heart checked.  Is this too much spray or too little?  I just need to feel well again.  I don’t know how many sprays to take today.  I also don’t know how to tape off the spray - just can’t work out how to do it.  Any advice would be be much appreciated. 

[Joeyjo1976]

Sorry, I know this is an old thread! How do you manage to tape over the lenzetto spray? Do you tape right over half of the nozzle? Or over the round but that goes against your arm?
😊😊

[Gilla999]

Hey Joeyjo - I used masking tape (as it's wider than sellotape) and placed it over the round part that you put against your arm and then sort of wrapped both ends of the masking tape messily around the longer bit. It's quite easy to do. Does that make sense? Happy to send you a pic if you want to PM me your email address!