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[Kathleen]

Hello ladies.

Can I ask about your experiences of mood swings? I think we are all familiar with the low moods of the menopause but do any of you also experience episodes of calmness and optimism as well?

I am curious because I loaned my trusty meno book to a friend and she commented on the section about emotional issues. The book says that mood swings from elation to despondency are common but my friend works in the mental health field and wondered if these problems really were hormone related.

As you know my moods are all over the place despite HRT and although I believe my book is correct I thought I would ask  you lovely ladies  to relay your experiences.

I promised my friend that I would pass on any information and she said that she would be very grateful both personally and professionally!

Take care ladies.

K.

[Kathleen]

Hello again ladies.

I see that there have been views of this post but no comments, does this mean that no one has  experienced the emotional ups and downs that I described?

My trusty meno book talks about mood swings but if no one else on MM has the same experience then perhaps hormones are not responsible after all.

The friend that I loaned the book to works in mental health and I was hoping to convince her that the menopause was a factor for some of the people she works with and she could suggest HRT.

I plan to meet up with her on Thursday so if anyone has anything to say on the subject I would be truly grateful.

Wishing you all well ladies and take care.

K.

[Gynaikeíos]

Hello Kathleen, I have just had an inspiration about cortisol on another thread.

Maybe I am very wrong, but if it causes us to be physically hot and upset by that, what does it do to our Metaphorical feelings? Our brains are in layers, so where is it made? How does it travel in our brains?
Is it also made in our guts?

Lose oestrogen, gain cortisol. Why wouldn't this affect our moods? What about testosterone? We are bodies and minds in one,  no?

I am on low topical oestrogen.  Before it, I was getting really down. Irritation was making me irritable. Deep pain was starting to bring out old unhappiness. I think I am stabilised for now. I feel better within myself at different levels.

Also, there was a radio program about the vagus nerve. All linked up to our moods. Radio 4 Made of Stern Stuff. More is being discovered about how we connect within ourselves.

[Denise Didi]

Hi K

I have had mood swings and it is my understanding its related to fluctuating hormone levels. Yesterday afternoon I was crying my heart out by 5pm I was perfectly calm and even made moussaka for t. I couldn't explain it. 
If you read about oestrogen and progesterone you will see that they impact our moods so I'm not sure why your friend thinks otherwise.
Denise

[Perinowpost]

Hormones are precursors to mood. That is why peri meno can be particularly disturbing as hormones fluctuate, especially to those who are sensitive to said fluctuations. Just look at how many come to this forum at this time of life.

If your friend with the interest in mental health isn’t aware of this, then she’s either not done her research or hasn’t personally reached this stage of life yet.

Also, mood swings which start in peri are a very different thing i.e., hormonal, to mental health which was present previously. You’ll know which camp you fall in to.

That said there are lots of things you can do to stabilise menopausal mood swings:

Eat clean, no processed food and minimise sugar.
Supplement declining hormones with hrt.
Minimise stress.
Exercise, preferably relaxing activities such as walking, swimming and yoga.

Hope this helps x

[Kathleen]

Hello ladies and thank you all for your comments.


Gynaikeios - I agree about cortisol, it is another hormone that needs to be in balance and I will do some research on the Vagus Nerve.

I am pleased to hear that your HRT regime is working for you.


Denise Didi -  Your mood swings sound like mine!  I am post meno by quite a long way so perhaps my HRT is responsible for any fluctuations?

I think my nurse friend was saying that mood swings can also be a symptom of other illnesses.

Perinowpost -   I am doing everything I can to help stabilise my moods but I swear that sometimes they have a life of their own lol.

Many thanks again ladies for your thoughts and ideas. Much appreciated.

Take care.

K.

[Floo36]

Going on my own experience the fluctuations can be brutal.  I used to get the odd panic attack and then a month ago the panic lasted 3 weeks which I believe was down to fluctuations as I near menopause, immediately before  this episode I was elated.  It has been a horrific rollercoaster ride.  I feel at times like I’m riding a bike over cobbles.

Low and fluctuating Estrogen is definitely the cause of my mental health issues in peri. 

[Kathleen]

Hello Floo36

I like your description of riding a bike over cobbles! It certainly rings a bell with me (see what I did there lol).

As I am long time post meno I can't believe that my hormones are still fluctuating but clearly my HRT isn't helping.

I may be changing my regime soon so I remain hopeful.

Take care.

K.

[TheAmericansWife]

Also, mood swings which start in peri are a very different thing i.e., hormonal, to mental health which was present previously. You’ll know which camp you fall into

I can’t entirely agree. I’ve been on and off anti-depressants most of my adult life for anxiety and mood swings, at one point my doctor thought I was Bi Polar. When I hit peri menopause my mood swings were extremely dramatic and for the first time in my life I felt suicidal. I thought I needed to go back on the anti depressants, except about this time my niece got diagnosed with PMDD. My sister contacted me and told me she thinks this is my problem. At no point in my life did I think to track my moods against my hormones. It turns out I am extremely sensitive to fluctuations, even my own natural ones.

Since starting HRT my moods have improved tremendously. I still have swings at certain times in my cycle and haven’t found my magic dose yet (10 months in) but I’m a different person with the HRT

[Kathleen]

Hell TheAmericansWife.

Thank you for your interesting post.

Despite being back on HRT my mood swings continue to plague me but this may be because I haven't found the correct regime yet.

I didn't have extreme mood issues during my fertile years though I recall feeling more calm and relaxed when my period started so perhaps tension had been building.

I have become so worried about my mood changes that I am wondering of I have a form of Bi Polar. I know of other ladies on the forum who have similar concerns.

I would love to hear more about your experiences of mood swings  why your doctor thought you were Bi Polar.

Wishing you well and I am pleased that your HRT is helping you.

K.

[Perinowpost]

I didn’t have mood swings through my fertile years either Kathleen, or any form of mental Ill health. I first noticed pmt becoming a problem in my early forties, I would be terrible before my period and all symptoms would magically disappear once it arrived ... until the next cycle.  Eventually I went on hrt (at 47 1/2) and it really helped. Professor Studd writes about the link with hormonal fluctuations and depression and it’s quite enlightening. I still go through some sort of dip with utrogestan withdrawal, however it’s not as bad as  peri menopausal pmt and is a small price to pay for feeling well the rest of the time. You are clearly extremely sensitive to hormonal fluctuations Kathleen and I feel for you as it’s not easy, and hope you find a solution soon.

That said I maintain hormonal depression is not the same as the mental ill health described by some ladies on this forum who have shared their experiences.

Maybe the difference is down to whether you ever feel back to ‘normal’ on your hrt regime. I do for example, and just have a bit of a rough ride on the progesterone phase. Food for thought x

I

[Kathleen]

Hello again Perinowpost.

You make some very interesting points.

Although I had some anxious times in the past, often due to difficult circumstances, I have never felt the way I have since becoming post meno. Indeed when I read about the emotional /psychological symptoms as listed in my trusty Meno book, I remember thinking that I wasn't familiar with any of them!

I never suffered from post natal depression and actually felt really good throughout both my pregnancies so I was never sure that hormonal depression affected me in the same way as other patients of Prof Studd.

Again, confusingly, I do sometimes feel back to normal on HRT but after a while another mood change occurs and I begin to feel anxious and tearful again. As an example I woke early this morning full of the jitters etc but about an hour later I experienced a lovely feeling of calm that continued for about an hour. Just as I cannot figure out why I often feel horrible, I can't identify what it is that makes me feel good. Hence my interest in a form  of Bi Polar diagnosis.

Hopefully I will find the magic formula soon as being on this emotional roller-coaster is beyond exhausting!

Thanks again for your comments and take care.

K.

 

[TheAmericansWife]

Again, confusingly, I do sometimes feel back to normal on HRT but after a while another mood change occurs and I begin to feel anxious and tearful again. As an example I woke early this morning full of the jitters etc but about an hour later I experienced a lovely feeling of calm that continued for about an hour. Just as I cannot figure out why I often feel horrible, I can't identify what it is that makes me feel good. Hence my interest in a form  of Bi Polar diagnosis

I hear you Kathleen, and I totally empathise, I am feeling much the same way, whilst HRT got rid of some of the more troubling physical issues, and the extreme mood swings, I still get very annoying and upsetting swings.

I have a period where I wake up with the jitters every morning, I feel very down and can easily cry. At these junctures everything in my world feels wrong and hard. Then I have periods where I can feel “me”, happy, buoyant and positive and love everything in my world.

As perinowpost says, I also get utrogestan withdrawal, but have found I can manage this better by using it vaginally rather than orally. I’m as clueless as you, I’ve discussed with my specialist, she wonders if it’s the testosterone we’ve added, but I’m not sure. Now I’m tracking these moods against the days of my cycle to see if I have a pattern.

Bi Polar doesn’t have as many swings. A typical bi polar sufferer will swing between depression and mania a few times a year, which is why my doctor and I agreed that it was unlikely. So they just diagnosed me with anxiety and depression instead, even though there were big swathes of time that I felt fine?

[Perinowpost]

I agree my MIL was bio polar (although it was called manic depressive back then) and her pattern was nothing like yours Kathleen. Also it’s a hell of a label to be landed with if that’s not the case. I can’t remember if you’re on testosterone Kathleen but it also can cause cortisol surges if your receptors are sensitive (mine are, I manage it by only using 3 x tiny blobs per week on the soles of my feet).

Also can’t recall if your on anything for anxiety or depression (and more importantly whether you want to or not) but have you considered a natural approach for this? I take a high grade fish oil (can DM you) which definitely helps x