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Author Topic: Re setting the body and starting again?  (Read 2947 times)

Nas

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Re setting the body and starting again?
« on: July 30, 2021, 09:33:27 AM »

Hi,
Have any of your ladies, been on HRT, had trouble with it not suiting etc, come off and waited a few weeks, to see what sypmtoms you actually experience?

This is me. Two and half years ago, sypmtoms began - hot flushes, anxiety, insomnia etc. I was prescribed oestrogel and utrogestan which got rid of the flushes, but not alot else, plus it was a faff to apply and dry. Then changed to 75mg patches. Again flushes went, sleep still poor and worse still BLEEDING!

Fast foward to now. Private specialist prescribed Evorel Conti, thinking lower oestrogen and different progesterone may solve the bleeds. Within 2 days, I wanted to kill someone and felt very edgy. Patch ripped off an in the bin. Went with no HRT for a week, no flushes, but started to feel jittery and anxious. So, have put my old 75 patch back on and don't feel that great today either. A bleed is probably on the cards now!

What I really want to do, is go cold turkey for three months, to see how I feel.

BUT then I remember the symptoms of 2019 and it was grim. I could barely drive or walk in a straight line. Now I can drive (just about) and can do a basic job, but I am not where I want to be.

I have no clue what I am doing any longer, every day is different and I am an idiot for chopping and changing doses and regimes. At one point, I did up the patch to 100mg (thinking it would help my sleep) but the pain in my tummy was not nice, so that idea was quicky abandoned.

What I really want, is to ride the storm and be alive at the end. But I have teen kids and will be working til I drop.

I suppose the next step if I bleed, is to ask for a different progesterone, but MS said I must give Conti 4 weeks. That is my entire summer break ruined if I do that ( I work in a special needs school).

What do I do lovely people?

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Sparkles1973

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Re: Re setting the body and starting again?
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2021, 09:43:42 AM »

Hi Nas!

I did something similar.... I'm 47 and tried Evoral sequi patches for 12 weeks (I still have quite regular periods) and felt no difference for a while then my mental health plummeted and I kept bleeding... I started taking them for really heart palpitations, anxiety and a bit of low mood too 😀.  At 12 weeks I ripped the patch off but still felt quite horrible... racing heart, anxiety being the main problem.  So I increased my AD that I was taking to 100mg (Sertraline).  I have felt a lot better, but having a bit of a blip this week (just been on my period) with fluey symptoms, pounding heart, loose bowels, feeling generally crap.  So, I'm waiting to feel better again.  My Docs weren't that helpful and said that I was limited to what other hrt I could try 😣 so I'm just trying to battle through the horrid bits and pray they go away.  I'm scared to try anything else hormonal to be honest xxx
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Michelle7474

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Re: Re setting the body and starting again?
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2021, 10:08:03 AM »

Hi Nas
I’m doing exactly that at the moment
I took my patch off on Tuesday ..

I had been on everol sequi for almost z4 months but in that time I felt that aniexty jittery feeling and panic had increased as I only ever had a few episodes of this before patches ( basically I became a bag of nerves ) which I know is hormones as everything else in life is fine

I originally went on HRT for aches and pains. Palpitations and racing heart feeling & the aniexty that I had experienced maybe 2 times , dry skin and just generally feeling crap mid cycle and start of cycle and that was enough for me to know I needed help

1st month the initial aches and pains went , but then loads other things like daily aniexty ( didn’t matter what patch ) lightheadedness became worse ( aniexty could have caused this ) Tummy problems blah blah blah the list was endless but I wanted so much to do the 3 months and see if it settled
It didn’t for me unfortunately
I spoke to my pharmacist who said that maybe I didn’t need the HRT as much as I thought I did as in maybe now I have too much hormone and it’s raging and that’s why things had got worse
She advised either to take a smaller dose or maybe stop as I didn’t have to wean off them because wasn’t longer than 6 months.

I decided to take the patch off .. I felt relieved in my self
I’m only early days & I don’t feel as jittery but it’s there .. this morning I was shaky & very hot but I carried on what I was doing it passed and heat in my face stayed lol ( this used to happen before HRT gave staying hot ) shakes was a bee thing for me as was intense aniexty and sweaty and very clammy feet .. like my body was giving me my flush via my feet lol bizzzzzare

I still get sweats on my feet .. I still get most of what I had but milder but again it’s early days and pharmist said it can take a while for our body’s to adjust to not receiving the added hormone.

I hope I can give myself this break to feel a bit like me again .. I would consider HRT again but I wouldn’t struggle with what I did for as long

I hope whatever you decide to do works for you
We are all going through the same thing yet we are all so different

I think I can handle the sweats & aches and pains more than I could the shakes and aniexty and jittery and panic

We will see how this goes but for now I’m happy I’m off the patch .. ( maybe next week I might think different )

Good luck in what you do , no one knows their own bodies more than you.. so onli you know what’s right
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Taz2

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Re: Re setting the body and starting again?
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2021, 10:08:57 AM »

Hi Nas. Although it is difficult I think the only way is to make a decision and then stick to it for the three months. To start and stop or stop and then restart too soon wont solve anything. Also, if you have paid for a private specialist then it stands to reason to go with what they tell you? I know you don't want to go back to how you were feeling before but unless you give either decision enough time to give results then you wont know. What is the worst symptom you want help with?

Taz x
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Nas

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Re: Re setting the body and starting again?
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2021, 10:27:54 AM »

Hi Sparkles and Michelle,
Thank you so much for sharing your experiences, it certainly is good to know I am not alone during this seemingly endless hormonal journey!

I really want to ditch HRT, but don't have the courage to do so right now, Mainly because I need to work and drive. I can remember all too well, how it was not to be able to sleep for days pre HRT patch and can't go back to that place again. That said, I don't feel that great on the patch either and feel caught between a rock and a hard place right now. This week just gone by, with no HRT, I thought my heart was going to burst out my body during the night..I just hate it all.

Sparkles, I am so with you on being scared to try anything more on the hormonal front. I have never used hormonal products previously and maybe my body is retaliating! Why are you limited to what HRT you can try? There is the gel and the spray, before you reach for tablets. See you you get on with the sertraline, do you have any side effects with it? Really hope you feel better soon, it's miserable to feel unwell day after day.

Michelle, you are also so right in that only we know our bodies. I was adamant that HRT was the right path, but I am not so sure now. I want to see how I am without and think if another bleed turns up, the patch comes off for the time being. I have just read your thread and so much resonates. They keep saying give each HRT regime three months, but what if each day is just awful?

Apparantly only 10% of UK women take HRT. It has to be manageable surely? Or maybe women just struggle on through until the symptoms subside?



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Nas

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Re: Re setting the body and starting again?
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2021, 10:37:15 AM »

Thank you Taz.
I know what you are saying makes sense.

It is a little tricky as I have had breast cancer, so I am technically under Chelsea and Westminster Hospital.
They have prescribed me the patch and progesterone and when I raised the issue of the bleeding and not feeling well, they said lack of oestrogen was the cause. I was advised to switch to gel again, to kickstart absorption. The gel gave me awful headaches and irritiability, so they said go back to patch and change x 3 times. Bleeds continued but they won't alter my progesterone due to the cancer and they wouldn't let me trial any other form of HRT, it has to be either patch or gel.

I paid the specialist i have the option of trialing other HRT preparations.
The conti patch made me feel very angry and on edge, hated it. How long can you feel angry and on edge for? It is not fair on family.

I will sit down over the weekend and come up with a plan.

You are 100% correct and I have caused my own issues I know.

Which symptoms do I want to alleviate first? Anxiety and I would like some better sleep.

:-)
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EllaAurora

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Re: Re setting the body and starting again?
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2021, 11:02:06 AM »

Hi,
Have any of your ladies, been on HRT, had trouble with it not suiting etc, come off and waited a few weeks, to see what sypmtoms you actually experience?

This is me. Two and half years ago, sypmtoms began - hot flushes, anxiety, insomnia etc. I was prescribed oestrogel and utrogestan which got rid of the flushes, but not alot else, plus it was a faff to apply and dry. Then changed to 75mg patches. Again flushes went, sleep still poor and worse still BLEEDING!

Fast foward to now. Private specialist prescribed Evorel Conti, thinking lower oestrogen and different progesterone may solve the bleeds. Within 2 days, I wanted to kill someone and felt very edgy. Patch ripped off an in the bin. Went with no HRT for a week, no flushes, but started to feel jittery and anxious. So, have put my old 75 patch back on and don't feel that great today either. A bleed is probably on the cards now!

What I really want to do, is go cold turkey for three months, to see how I feel.

BUT then I remember the symptoms of 2019 and it was grim. I could barely drive or walk in a straight line. Now I can drive (just about) and can do a basic job, but I am not where I want to be.

I have no clue what I am doing any longer, every day is different and I am an idiot for chopping and changing doses and regimes. At one point, I did up the patch to 100mg (thinking it would help my sleep) but the pain in my tummy was not nice, so that idea was quicky abandoned.

What I really want, is to ride the storm and be alive at the end. But I have teen kids and will be working til I drop.

I suppose the next step if I bleed, is to ask for a different progesterone, but MS said I must give Conti 4 weeks. That is my entire summer break ruined if I do that ( I work in a special needs school).

What do I do lovely people?

Hi Nas, I'm having exactly the same thoughts at the moment.

After so many months of struggle with HRT, I'm starting to be really tired of this and also constantly wondering if I'm actually making things better or worse with it.

My symptoms before I started HRT were hot flushes and insomnia, also some dryness, but that I was able to treat with topical products.
Flushes are gone and insomnia better, but there are other symptoms which really wear me down and I'm not sure if these are meno symptoms due to own hormones decreasing or actually caused by my body not being able to tolerate increased doses of HRT and/or the fluctuations caused by transdermal dosing. My worst symptom over the past months has been, and continues to be bad anxiety and panicky feelings and these seem to persist no matter what I try with HRT.

This all started in Spring when I had a bleed after several months and I felt my own hormones were crashing down so I was advised by gynae to up the gel dose. I tried and tried and it just got worse, suddenly my body couldn't tolerate the gel and I was getting bad rushes/surges after each dose.

Finally, switched to patch with the hope of getting a more stable dose, but unfortunately the same continued. Also with patch I experienced the rush and felt I was absorbing too quickly, then dose wearing off too fast. All in all, I just didn't get on with it.

I've stopped the patch yesterday and at least feeling somewhat better after doing that. I decided that I will try to go back to the original regime which I had and which worked for a while (only 1 pump Estrogel). It has occurred to me that perhaps the symptoms I had in spring were actually not caused by low oestrogen but were something else and all my attempts to increase estrogen have actually just made things worse. Not sure if this is the case, but I reached the point that I could not continue with higher doses any longer. I will speak with gynae next week and as an alternative, we may try low dose oral.

It is tempting, though, to take a break from HRT and see what the actual symptoms are and then decide how to move on and perhaps come back to it after things have settled. But at the same time the realist in me tells that probably the symptoms could be even worse, as surely my meno has progressed during the past year and I would not come back to the situation I was last year August, with still relatively mild symptoms.

The only advice I could give to you Nas is that keep in touch with your gynae/meno specialist and consider all alternatives. Then try to stick with the selected one at least couple of weeks. I've often heard it being said that one should keep the regime 3 months, but it sounds excessively long time if there is no improvement. Personally I'm thinking I'd know within couple of weeks if the direction is better or worse. And then if better, keep going until 3 mo to see it if settles.

Hope you will find a solution soon and let us know how you get on!!
xxx

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Sparkles1973

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Re: Re setting the body and starting again?
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2021, 11:11:47 AM »

Hey Nas! Blimey, you've been through the mill sweetie ❤ and I'm lucky in that I haven't had problems sleeping.

I not sure why the Doc said that.... I think they just couldn't be bothered as they assumed I would react better to the ones they gave me, so didn't really have much knowledge of hrt for menstruating women 🤷‍♀️ I have been better over the last few weeks anxiety wise but having a bad day of a racing heart and hot face today..... a few days ago I felt fluey and exhausted with loose bowels..... at least I'm feeling better from that..... perimenopause is just a gift that keeps on giving .... 😣😣 xxx
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KarineT

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Re: Re setting the body and starting again?
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2021, 11:46:45 AM »

I am not on HRT so I couldn't advise you  but I HRT, although it's supposed to help rather than make things worse, is artificial as it's not produced by the body. It could be the reason why some women struggle with it as their bodies are sensitive to anything foreign.
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Denise Didi

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Re: Re setting the body and starting again?
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2021, 12:02:20 PM »

Hi Nas
My moods have been the main thing i have struggled with, i was the same with PMT.  The only thing that has helped is a reduced progesterone option and for that i had to have the Mirena coil.  I am also on 100mcg Estrodot and Testogel.   I thought the testogel was going to sort my energy and mood levels and it did for a while but then i had to reduce the dose due to aggression!  I am 55 now and been on this journey 4 years.  I am wondering if i am now actually post menopausal rather than peri and have to start again!


Hi,
Have any of your ladies, been on HRT, had trouble with it not suiting etc, come off and waited a few weeks, to see what sypmtoms you actually experience?

This is me. Two and half years ago, sypmtoms began - hot flushes, anxiety, insomnia etc. I was prescribed oestrogel and utrogestan which got rid of the flushes, but not alot else, plus it was a faff to apply and dry. Then changed to 75mg patches. Again flushes went, sleep still poor and worse still BLEEDING!

Fast foward to now. Private specialist prescribed Evorel Conti, thinking lower oestrogen and different progesterone may solve the bleeds. Within 2 days, I wanted to kill someone and felt very edgy. Patch ripped off an in the bin. Went with no HRT for a week, no flushes, but started to feel jittery and anxious. So, have put my old 75 patch back on and don't feel that great today either. A bleed is probably on the cards now!

What I really want to do, is go cold turkey for three months, to see how I feel.

BUT then I remember the symptoms of 2019 and it was grim. I could barely drive or walk in a straight line. Now I can drive (just about) and can do a basic job, but I am not where I want to be.

I have no clue what I am doing any longer, every day is different and I am an idiot for chopping and changing doses and regimes. At one point, I did up the patch to 100mg (thinking it would help my sleep) but the pain in my tummy was not nice, so that idea was quicky abandoned.

What I really want, is to ride the storm and be alive at the end. But I have teen kids and will be working til I drop.

I suppose the next step if I bleed, is to ask for a different progesterone, but MS said I must give Conti 4 weeks. That is my entire summer break ruined if I do that ( I work in a special needs school).

What do I do lovely people?
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Michelle7474

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Re: Re setting the body and starting again?
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2021, 12:32:02 PM »

Hey Nas! Blimey, you've been through the mill sweetie ❤ and I'm lucky in that I haven't had problems sleeping.

I not sure why the Doc said that.... I think they just couldn't be bothered as they assumed I would react better to the ones they gave me, so didn't really have much knowledge of hrt for menstruating women 🤷‍♀️ I have been better over the last few weeks anxiety wise but having a bad day of a racing heart and hot face today..... a few days ago I felt fluey and exhausted with loose bowels..... at least I'm feeling better from that..... perimenopause is just a gift that keeps on giving .... 😣😣 xxx
Hi Sparkles
How long have you been off the patches now ?
Funny you say about flu & loose bowels I’ve been like that for 2 days & today from no where loose bowels ( too much info )
I’m hoping my body settles after a while of being off the patch …
The aniexty is deffo the worse feeling for me ever & I don’t take any medication if I’m honest as I didn’t want to go down that route if it’s all hormonal
Racing heart is a feeling I often get but was also getting that with patches & also a hot face 🥵
Then it cools and then becomes hot again
Like my inside temp as been messed about with … sweating at my feet then cold hands and feet then red hot face 😂😂😂
I have to laugh at myself as I sound like a loon
But I know it’s hormones

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Taz2

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Re: Re setting the body and starting again?
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2021, 12:43:22 PM »

Thank you Taz.
I know what you are saying makes sense.

It is a little tricky as I have had breast cancer, so I am technically under Chelsea and Westminster Hospital.
They have prescribed me the patch and progesterone and when I raised the issue of the bleeding and not feeling well, they said lack of oestrogen was the cause. I was advised to switch to gel again, to kickstart absorption. The gel gave me awful headaches and irritiability, so they said go back to patch and change x 3 times. Bleeds continued but they won't alter my progesterone due to the cancer and they wouldn't let me trial any other form of HRT, it has to be either patch or gel.

I paid the specialist i have the option of trialing other HRT preparations.
The conti patch made me feel very angry and on edge, hated it. How long can you feel angry and on edge for? It is not fair on family.

I will sit down over the weekend and come up with a plan.

You are 100% correct and I have caused my own issues I know.

Which symptoms do I want to alleviate first? Anxiety and I would like some better sleep.

:-)

I don't think you are causing your own issues on purpose - it's a horrible place to be when whatever you try seems to throw up more problems then it cures.  I didn't take into account your previous breast cancer - brain not engaged - and this obviously complicates things for you. Evorel conti has Norethisterone as the progesterone and this is well known to cause irritability and pmt type symptoms so it could be that a different one would suit you better. I swapped from Evorel to FemSeven due to this very problem. Not sure if FemSeven is around at the moment though.

I must admit that, for me, HRT didn't alleviate my anxiety although it got rid of the horrible hot sweats and enabled me to sleep so I felt more in control and less tired.

Let us know what plan you come up with. Be kind to yourself whenever you can.

Taz x
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Michelle7474

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Re: Re setting the body and starting again?
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2021, 04:48:16 PM »

Thank you Taz.
I know what you are saying makes sense.

It is a little tricky as I have had breast cancer, so I am technically under Chelsea and Westminster Hospital.
They have prescribed me the patch and progesterone and when I raised the issue of the bleeding and not feeling well, they said lack of oestrogen was the cause. I was advised to switch to gel again, to kickstart absorption. The gel gave me awful headaches and irritiability, so they said go back to patch and change x 3 times. Bleeds continued but they won't alter my progesterone due to the cancer and they wouldn't let me trial any other form of HRT, it has to be either patch or gel.

I paid the specialist i have the option of trialing other HRT preparations.
The conti patch made me feel very angry and on edge, hated it. How long can you feel angry and on edge for? It is not fair on family.

I will sit down over the weekend and come up with a plan.

You are 100% correct and I have caused my own issues I know.

Which symptoms do I want to alleviate first? Anxiety and I would like some better sleep.

:-)

I don't think you are causing your own issues on purpose - it's a horrible place to be when whatever you try seems to throw up more problems then it cures.  I didn't take into account your previous breast cancer - brain not engaged - and this obviously complicates things for you. Evorel conti has Norethisterone as the progesterone and this is well known to cause irritability and pmt type symptoms so it could be that a different one would suit you better. I swapped from Evorel to FemSeven due to this very problem. Not sure if FemSeven is around at the moment though.

I must admit that, for me, HRT didn't alleviate my anxiety although it got rid of the horrible hot sweats and enabled me to sleep so I felt more in control and less tired.

Let us know what plan you come up with. Be kind to yourself whenever you can.

Taz x
Taz did you ever take anything for your aniexty if you don’t mind me asking.

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Sparkles1973

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Re: Re setting the body and starting again?
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2021, 08:43:04 AM »

Hi Michelle!

I think you are my twin 😁 I've been off the patches since Feb.  Since then, I would have periods of feeling slightly better then bam! Racing heart, hot face, anxiety etc.  Then the fluey thing with loose bowels 😣 back in April, I seemed to have weeks of all this plus low mood.  It got to the point where I couldn't hardly leave the house, only to work and I felt awful.  I went to a different Doc and he was lovely.  I decided that I would increase my Sertraline.  I must admit, i do feel better anxiety and mood wise, but still have blips of pounding heart and hot face and the mysterious flu 🤦‍♀️ I'm currently going through a blip of the pounding heart and hot face.... I hate it but I don't think it's linked to anxiety as I think it's separate, if that makes sense? I still get my periods and I wish they would sod off so I would know exactly where I am at with this horrible thing.

I'm not sure whether to try another hrt atm, I'm just seeing how I go 🤷‍♀️ xxx

I hope you find a solution Michelle, it's horrible..... but I would recommend the Sertraline.  I know it's not hrt but I think it's helped me in some respects xxx
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Nas

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Re: Re setting the body and starting again?
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2021, 02:26:53 PM »

Thanks all
 Well I’ve decided to return to my 75 patch and utrogestan daily. That is the regime which I feel most stable on right now I think. I’m certain my body needs more Oestrogen but the 100 is too much for my tummy to cope with 🤷‍♀️

The trial and error of HRT is unreal. Years could be spend trialing this product and that product, each time for months to see what happens. Yet some women slap on a 50 patch or a couple of blobs of gel and bingo, life is good again!

 I’ve come to the conclusion, just take what ever makes you feel well ( even if it’s an anti depressant). Its can be such a challenging time of life and we all so different.

What is important is that we can support each other during the tough times and share what has worked for different symptoms.

🌸🌸🌸🌸😀
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