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[Postmeno3]

Hi!
Curious to know of food or drink which worsens symptoms of VA/GSM? Apologies if there's already a thread on this, no energy to trawl! Thanks!
💚

[Wrensong]

Hi Postmeno3,

I remember you were unable to view the list of most bothersome foods for cystitis on the link I posted on the other thread where this came up so pasting it in here.  Won't prevent VA of course, or help maintain the GU tract the way oestrogen replacement does, so no substitute for HRT, but may help reduce the horrible burning of bladder symptoms associated with GSM.  A Cons Uro-gynae with a special interest in menopause recommended the website.  I also take D_Mannose on his recommendation & have seen mention of other members using it.  Sorry - very long list! 

https://www.ichelp.org/living-with-ic/interstitial-cystitis-and-diet/elimination-diet/least-and-most-bothersome-foods/

Most bothersome
Cranberry juice
Grapefruit and grapefruit juice
Lemons
Oranges and orange juice
Pineapple and pineapple juice
Strawberries

Chili peppers
Pickles
Sauerkraut
Tomatoes and tomato products

Processed sandwich meats (salami, bologna)
Soy
Yogurt
Chili
Horseradish
Ketchup
Salad Dressings
Soy sauce
Vinegar
Worcester Sauce

Alcohol
Coffee (caffeinated and decaffeinated)
Tea (caffeinated and decaffeinated)
Carbonated drinks  (cola, non-cola, diet, and caffeine-free)

Chocolate
Indian food
Mexican food
Pizza
Spicy foods
Thai food

Artificial sweeteners (Equal® (sweetener), NutraSweet®, Saccharin, and Sweet’N Low®)
Monosodium glutamate (MSG)

Those I've found especially problematic are the fruits & juices they list, tomatoes, salad dressings, vinegar, coffee.  Cocoa seems to be very irritant indeed.  I no longer drink alcohol, more's the pity, but when I did it was certainly out of the question with cystitis.  Don't like tea & don't drink fizzy drinks, but do have lots & lots of plain water.  Currently reintroducing natural yoghurt to test response after a GSM flare as finding that on the list was a new one on me!

If you are considering excluding some of these I hope it helps.
Wx

[Gynaikeíos]

What helps is a little Vagisan at the outside. It is quite a good barrier cream. 
Drinking enough liquid helps. It was a relief to find that I had not been drinking the wrong sort of drinks, just not quite enough drinks. I am back to drinking juices, tea, and coffee, but making sure to have a drink of tap water with me, and use a little barrier cream in case of that dip in my oestrogen that causes my skin to be super sensitive.

[Postmeno3]

Very helpful, both of you. Thank you. Is there a case for increased systemic hrt to help, too?

[Wrensong]

Yes, even at max dose topical alone is not enough to control GSM for me & I believe there are other members who find the same.  My recent flare arose a few weeks after reducing my systemic HRT to very low dose for other reasons.  If dryness is a problem, studies suggest androgen deficiency is implicated, so testosterone may help.

[Gynaikeíos]

Such a lot to look forward to    🤪🙄

[Postmeno3]

Indeed! It seems citrus, caffeine and spice are the most bothersome for me. Alcohol, definitely. I tend to use D-Mannose intermittently (reactively, but successfully) and should maybe just use it proactively consistently. I seem to remember reading somewhere that it's not recommended for constant use, but I've maybe got that wrong. Yes, probably more fluids and of the right sorts is wise, even moreso just now! Anyone else aware of bothersome foods/drinks and monitoring impact? Thanks! 💚

[Wrensong]

Forewarned is forearmed Gynaikeios  !  Not all doom & gloom  .  Not sure where you are in the transition, but as we get further into postmenopause when hormone fluctuations have settled, some aspects get easier for many of us, as we tend then just to be managing the consequences of deficiency.  If peri has been horrendous there's also the relief of leaving that behind & for me at least, a greater appreciation of many things I took for granted in me yoof! 

Does seem to be the case though, that some women's bodies adapt more easily than others'.  For those of us who have a pretty bad time of it, or whose health is compromised by other chronic conditions, there is at least the choice of trying HRT if we're lucky enough not to have contraindications to it.

Is it caffeine or coffee though Postmeno3?  IC articles mention that substances in coffee other than caffeine can make it irritant to the bladder, so that decaff may not help .

On balance Gynaikeios, perhaps you're right 
Wx

P.S. Thanks for the reminder Postmeno3, about having breaks when taking D-Mannose long term.  I'm new to it but don't like taking anything that can't be monitored with blood tests in the way that say Vit D/B12 can.  It's also not cheap !

[Postmeno3]

Caffeine in general, sadly. I tend to have mostly decaff, but not much difference. Really, I think I've become so deficient for so long there's quite a hill to climb. Onwards!
💚

[Wrensong]

Keep climbing & it should get easier.

[dahliagirl]

I have had big problems with herb teas.  I can't remember what they were now - thrown them all out.  I stick to chamomile or peppermint.

But any containing ginger were particularly bad.

Also some Sainsbury's vit B tablets.

[CLKD]

Herb teas      . Decaffe - miss out the middle woman and pour straight on to the compost  . I drink small bottles of coca-cola, weak bl tea with 2 sugars and occasionally bottled, fizzy water. My P is straw coloured even in this intense heat 

With that list there ain't a lot left !  However it is wise to point out that not all those foods will affect all ladies ;-).  The important issue is to have a good vaginal regime: wiping front to back, using appropriate VA treatment often enough to give relief of symptoms, sometimes every night; plus a little of the product on the whole outer labia region.  Some require an extra 'vagifem' i.e. 1 in the mid afternoon, the next the same night. 

When I get the need2P feelings I take 'nurofen'; 2 capsules 3 times a day for 3 days or until symptoms ease which they do within 24 hours. 

[Gynaikeíos]

So is the general pain and tenderness reduced by ibuprofen, CLKD? That is definitely something I should be thinking about, because at some point I will be working away from home again much more, and there will be days when there will be no opportunity to top up the barrier cream or the oestrogen cream in the right way [I am someone who cannot manage contortions in a portaloo, unfortunately  ].

I thought through the food and drink I have consumed since the whole VA thing began. Nothing can be associated with making the symptoms worse - not even my favourite pickles and chutneys. It's just that sometimes I have more dryness than others that echo? [is that right?] my normal cycle when I would be noticing my normal secretions. I sometimes have irritations,  but nothing like before I went on the prescription. I have always been able to sit down without pain since the prescription started to work for one thing. Thank God for little things like that! 

Today I have drunk half a litre extra of water. It is sweaty weather. My pee is pale, so I should be OK.

[Wrensong]

Hi Gynakeios,

I thought through the food and drink I have consumed since the whole VA thing began. Nothing can be associated with making the symptoms worse - not even my favourite pickles and chutneys. It's just that sometimes I have more dryness than others

  The list relates to the bladder irritation we get with interstitial cystitis, a condition we can also get in fertile years, so is not really intended to address the symptoms of vaginal atrophy.  But as you'll know, the entire genito-urinary tract can be adversely affected by the reduction in our endogenous oestrogen at menopause & there have been a couple of threads asking whether members have noticed certain foods/drinks exacerbate their symptoms.  If those include bladder inflammation, UTIs etc which can become more frequent at menopause, then these are foods & drinks known to be irritant to the urinary tract & so may give us clues about things we are eating/drinking we may not have considered potentially problematic.  It's a biiig list  to avoid for sure & while it may help to cut out a lot of them during a very painful cystitis flare or UTI, we can also just use it to maybe help identify one or two items to reduce or exclude for a short while.    Other women may find they need to be more rigorous long term with what they eat & drink in order for their bladder to remain as comfortable as possible, especially those who don't have the benefit of HRT. 

Passing overly acidic urine may also exacerbate discomfort around the vulva if the area is inflamed/in poor condition.

If you are using topical &/or systemic HRT at the right dose for you this should in time help with dryness, improve overall robustness of GU tissue & reduce or hopefully get rid of discomfort relating to GSM.

I think it's appropriate that the term Genito-urinary Syndrome of Menopause (GSM) is now being used rather than Vaginal Atrophy, as it helps us realise that more than the genital organs of the pelvic area can be adversely affected by hormonal decline.
Wx

[Postmeno3]

Great, Wrensong. Thanks for expanding. I think absolutely key is getting the dosage of treatments right. Today, I am very sore and with a very active bladder as I had a long-ish walk yesterday with two long sits on hard seating, interspersed with coffee and polenta cake which was delicious. However, I came home and had some raspberries and a glass of wine later. I have been deteriorating this week to be fair, an excess of dairy I note may be playing a part for me, possibly initiating the decline. I do believe there are distinct links for those of us very sensitive "down there". It's great to see such numbers reading and, presumably, curious. Reducing or temporarily excluding what these links appear to be could be very useful and informative. Meanwhile, I am bracing myself for a phone consultation in which I want to press for an increase in my minimal dose of systemic..........Isn't stress a factor, too? 🙄