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[RebJT]

Hi

I've just done a month on Qlaira (23 days of prog, 17 of which are 3mg of dienogest progesterone) and sailed through the first month fine, in fact felt way, way better than I ever imagined, and had high hopes I'd finally cracked these horrible jittery symptoms I'm getting through my cycle (I think due to lack of prog, and too much E, had a game tolerating utrogestan).  I hit the end of the pack, did my two estrogen days, 2 sugar pills, and am now eaten alive with an over revved, taut as a piano wire, stressed on the inside feeling.  My withdrawal bleed never came (a period usually brings relief of these symptoms).  I am unclear and unsure what has caused this and whether this is progesterone sensitivity, progesterone build up, a blip that needs toughing out, or whether my body just hasn't liked the drop in hormones after getting steady or what.  Suffice to say I've had a hellish six days and am a gibbering wreck of shakiness and emotional overwroughtness.

My other option is the jaydess coil (I believe 13mg levonorgestrel-releasing intrauterine system, supposedly local not systemic effects).  I've been trialling Qlaira whilst waiting for a slot to discuss the jaydess with the GP.  That slot is up tomorrow, GP is calling me in the morning.

Can anyone help me compare one to the other.  What is the potency of Qlaira's dienogest vs levonorgestrel in Jaydess?  Does Jaydess only act locally as promised?  Is one generally better tolerated by prog sensitive women than the other?

I really need some relief to the heavy bleeding, iron loss and life derailing symptoms, but I'm nervous about the coil as I have much less control than with a pill, and am seriously in trouble financially and need some steadiness to be able to work.

Can anyone help explain these different progesterones to me?

Ta

Reb
x

[Perinowpost]

Hi RebJT

Could you skip the 2 sugar pills so you don’t get the drop in hormones a it seems you are tolerating the progesterone in Qlaira well. 

I can’t comment re the jaydess (nearly had one but not quite). Except to say however, that I was told there were no systemic effects with the mirena but there clearly were.

Hopefully someone will be along to answer your question more thoroughly x

[pepperminty]

Hi,

is this any good?

https://www.menopausedoctor.co.uk/menopause/hrt-the-different-ingredients-brands-and-strengths-available

Peppermintyx

[RebJT]

Hiya

Thanks, yes I've been told that too, but I simply cannot find a good report of jaydess anywhere, here, mumsnet, the web generally, everyone seems to get it removed due to systemic effects.  I know happy women don't write reports on the internet, but you'd think I could find at least one.  Not one.

Qlaira, I'm gutted as I have finally been like my old self, I was so happy that at last we might have turned a corner.  It's actually quite a big prog gap as you have two estrogen only days days 25 and 26, then 2 sugar pill days, then 2 more estrogen only as you start the new pack, so skipping the sugar pills would still mean four days without prog, but defo worth a go.  It's so confusing.

Am I right in thinking that if I were prog intolerant, and I was going to react to Qlaira I'd have known that before the end of the first month?  It seems odd that I'd go a whole month before feeling bad?

Thanks, sex hormones and HRT make my head hurt, I'm studying as hard as I can, but I can't seem to get it clear in my mind.

Thanks

Reb
x

[RebJT]

Hi,

is this any good?

https://www.menopausedoctor.co.uk/menopause/hrt-the-different-ingredients-brands-and-strengths-available

Peppermintyx

Thanks, not sure as I'm trying to work out the potency of one vs the other and the action (one's in the womb and one's systemic).  I don't know how one compares e.g. is it like comparing half a pint of beer to a double shot of vodka, one is less than the other by volume of liquid, and vice versa by amount of alcohol (sorry clumsy analogy but you know what I mean I hope!).

Reb
x

[Perinowpost]

Yes I think you would have known that before the end of the month. One of the problems with progesterone is withdrawing from it, it always takes me a few days to get over that.

Maybe discuss with your GP tweaking the qlaira so you take the prog pills continuously. I don’t know if that’s doable but you could always discuss it x

[RebJT]

Thanks so much, lightbulb moment, I didn't know there was such a thing as withdrawal from progesterone!  That makes a lot of sense. 

OK that's good to know, I've emailed my gynae and I've got the practice GP calling in the morning, she's the one with a specialist interest in HRT and contraception.

Thanks again

Reb

[Shannonplussed]

Oh for sure progesterone withdrawal is a bitch! That murderous feeling, it’s that. When I stopped the minipill (Micronor) years ago, the next day, I was actually scared to be alone with my child because I felt so much rage. Scary stuff. I was pretty worried with Prometrium that I would have that issue, but it wasn’t as bad.

Mirena has been fine for me. Nice that there’s no systemic withdrawal with an IUD. (Actually, I was also worried about the “Mirena Crash” after my first one was removed, but that was no problem, luckily.)

[Scampidoodle]

Hi just to say I tolerated the Mirena which is the same progesterone as Jaydess though a higher dose. I’m a fellow histamine person like you with outrageous hormone sensitivities and the Mirena was and is fine! I was amazed but desperate at the time. Felt a bit buzzy for a few days but been a dream for 3 years.

[RebJT]

Scampi

I could kiss you!  I've had a day in my PJs feeling like I'm on intravenous coffee, I feel hellish!  That is good to hear.  Maybe we do better on a steady dose then, rather than these ups and downs?  Were you getting cyclical symptoms with the histamine, mine are day 14 and estrogen build up at day 28 (except day 28 came and went with the pill, so no period to bring relief yet)?  I also seem incredibly, unbelieavably sensitive.  I am bloody outraged medicine is so sh*t, why don't women have better care??

I don't think I'm having withdrawal then, as I'm not full of rage or depression, I'm just 'wired' - I'm actually vibrating with histamine and I assume adrenaline and cortisol.  I haven't taken Qlaira today, I'm too scared to!

x

[Scampidoodle]

I’ve had the Mirena for 3 years now and think I’ll always have one now. I’m currently battling histamine symptoms again because I went into Oestrogel (hasn’t figured out the stuff about oestrogen and histamine at that point) so it sent me off again. My worst times are different in that my very worst time is when oestrogen climbs in the first part of my cycle about day 6-9. Then pre period.

Gynae recommended the combined pill but to keep the Mirena in. She said best to stop ok fluctuations and take back to back. If that fails it’ll be the mini pill (I guess if a bit of oestrogen is needed then as the Mirena is in you can have a bit of oestrogel then)

I know it’s all trial and error but that trial and error can be so damaging to some.

All I know is for me, I was worried Mirena would set me off but actually it stopped cyclical symptoms until the oestrogel saga. Must be the progesterone settling histamine and mast cells. Good luck x

[RebJT]

Hi again

Thanks, that's interesting and that's what I'm trying to figure out too, how I'll tolerate the oestrogel with the coil as I've been where you are (I started with Studd, on whopping suppressive doses of the stuff, before we'd worked out the histamine thing and honestly thought I was going to die the histamine symptoms were so bad my face and lips went numb!).  With this pill I've skipped a bleed - that usually breaks the 'fever' if you know what I mean - and now I'm day 7, and eaten alive with histamine, really really bad, I think I'm poisoned on my own estrogen-histamine loop currently!

And also, fascinating that your gynae wants you on a prog coil, plus a combined pill, so that's a lot of progesterone then?  What's the logic there, shutting down your own cycle?  Or controlling the histamine?  I'm assuming you started getting low E symptoms hence the oestrogel?  Who's your gynae if you don't mind me asking?  I'm under Panay's team, very lovely doc, in the trenches with me trying to figure this out but to be frank, spent thousands and still chasing my tail.

I totally agree the ups and downs are life wrecking, I'm freelance, and in despair at the precarious state of my finances, I don't see why I should lose my career because medicine is so bloomin' rubbish.  it'd help if they'd at least test us on these symptomatic days as then at least we'd know what's in play, surely that would be a clue ... I can't get any medic to care all that much.

Sorry so many questions, just trying to understand the route you've taken.  Like you I'm starting to think my issue isn't prog intolerance per se, but ups and downs, I just seem so sensitive to these shifts, with my histamine / estrogen causing the most confusion and misery.  it does make me worry how I'm going to tolerate HRT proper, but perhaps when we finally hit the buffers of proper meno, our own renegade ovaries will have given up the struggle!

Reb
x

[Scampidoodle]

Hi

My gynae is the same as yours ( we messaged before) but I just see her (virtually) at one of her different clinics rather than at the one you go to.

I first went on oestrogel to balance things out as presumed peri but I think my main issue is histamine and mast cells which have gotten worse as my oestrogen is dropping a little but not much so I don’t think I’m full blown peri. I just think a lot of the symptoms are similar.

The coil suited me but countless other meds I’m super sensitive to like anti biopics anti depressants I get crazy histamine reactions to I can’t take them. I just wondered if that was happening to you in that it’s just the fact you’re taking something your body doesn’t like as your system is hyper sensitised to a foreign invader. I may react badly to the pill when o try it I just don’t know yet x

[RebJT]

Hi

Sorry, do remember us talking, in a bit of a tizwaz today!  It's so confusing isn't it.  I know I'm getting low estrogen days, I can see it in my skin (my skin is lovely today, youthful, firm, glowing, I look five years younger, despite feeling like hammered crap, cos I'm flooded with estrogen!!) and just in how I feel but I think I'm getting E surges, that seems to coinicide with when I feel the absolute worst.

I am still confused about progesterone and whether I'm having any reaction to that - did you try utrogestan first?  How did you get on with that, as I seem to feel dreadful on that (which is why I'm twitchy about the coil) but then again I suppose it's up and down and not continuous.  I'm keeping a daily log and symptom diary using a grid so I can try and work out any patterns, but I'm still not clear really.

And yes I'm way more reactive than I used to be to things, but looking back over my adventures with all this in the last year or two, every time I've come unstuck it's when I've tried to take estrogen!

Anyway, thanks for chatting,

Reb
x

[Scampidoodle]

I keep hearing about progesterone intolerance when it comes to histamine but then I read about people with these issues who take the mini pill or depot shot and their issues go away so I don’t think it’s clear cut (that’s on Twitter)

I tried utrogestan on its own but my mood plummeted after 3/4 days and I got hot flushes.

I feel good on days 10/11 generally and better post ovulation with a few bumpy days. Worst is always as oestrogen rises.

So I think continuous hormones is the key. I’m trying Eloine next back to back and if no joy I’ll try the mini pill. X