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[Postmeno3]

I just read an article which talks about the sympathetic nervous system's relationship with libido. We want to encourage our parasympathetic nervous system to dominate, apparently, using more breath work and movement. Are there any people on here with clinical or medical knowledge about how problems with these systems being out of synch might be improved with oestrogen? Particularly systemic? I'd find this incredibly helpful! Thanks so much in advance.

[CLKD]

It's part of the automatic fight/flee system.  Why oestrogen would be involved? although a drop in hormones can cause anxiety. 

[Postmeno3]

Yep, I get that....arousal and recovery. With a chronic health condition of over a decade, the recovery (parasympathetic) is less likely to be efficient? Is this where an understanding and even use of DHEA might come in? I'm just really curious about the role of oestrogen, produced in the adrenal glands after all. I'm kind of excited, feeling like dots are joining, lightbulbs are going on and jigsaw pieces fitting as to how my hormone cascade could be failing me and neither wonder "normal" sexual responses aren't happening. It would be so great to hear as many theories as possible! Thanks!

[sheila99]

I don't know about the explanation but if you read through the posts on here you will find that for some adding oestrogen does result in the return of libido. For others (like me) oestrogen doesn't help, I needed to add testosterone.

[Postmeno3]

I suppose it's the "science" of it all I'm wanting to understand as it's a whole set of complex responses or lack of responses of which libido is one. I want to feel knowledgeable about if there is a relationship with those systems that oestrogen would help and why. I appreciate it's not typical or straightforward! 😂

[ElkWarning]

Fight / flight (sympathetic, quick), feed / breed (parasympathetic, slow).  So the parasympathetic nervous system (PSNS) has three main areas, head (cranial) heart (kind of, vagus) and root (pelvic).  I guess the bit you'd be interested in is the pudendal nerve in the pelvic, but this is actually sympathetic (quick) sort of relying on the parasympathetic (slow).  See what I mean?  The former gets the 'happy ending' but the latter is the thing that puts you into that position in the first place (Freud called it libido).

So how to support the PSNS?  Exercise, good food, plenty of R&R (sleep, meditation, enjoyable downtime).  Role of oestrogen?  There are oestrogen receptors in both the sympathetic and parasympathetic systems, lack of oestrogen will, therefore, have an effect.

I work in Neuroscience research, not as an academic, and every single study always concludes exercise more, eat less processed food, get some decent rest.  This appears to be true for a wide variety of people, e.g. Alzheimers, autistics, psychotics.

[Emma]

every single study always concludes exercise more, eat less processed food, get some decent rest.

"every single study always concludes exercise more, eat less processed food, get some decent rest"

Who thinks this should be cast in bronze and nailed to the home page?

[Taz2]

Me! 

Taz x

[Postmeno3]

O-M-G, Elk. You walk on water, my friend! This is what I have had enough pieces of the jigsaw for, but not enough. How I wish there was a way to print this off or receive it in an e-mail. Yes, to the three natural recommendations, BUT, with M.E., the exercise part is extremely variable. Thank goodness NICE finally took the GET (Graded Exercise Treatment/"Therapy") recommendations out of their guidelines, but only after many were floored, relapsing for weeks, even months. However, this could be contributing to how these systems are fighting with each other. I do find breath work helps enormously and could definitely do it more. However, the sympathetic is on overdrive and the parasympathetic not able to compensate. Oestrogen could truly be the answer after all. I could cry today! Thank you.

[Postmeno3]

P.S. ElkWarning, I doubt very much whether a gp or possibly even a Menopause Clinic could have awareness of this level of intricacies? And I'm guessing at 68 and long post-menopausal a topical Estring will be inadequate?

[Emma]

[Hurdity]

P.S. ElkWarning, I doubt very much whether a gp or possibly even a Menopause Clinic could have awareness of this level of intricacies? And I'm guessing at 68 and long post-menopausal a topical Estring will be inadequate?

Hi Posrtmeno - have you ever taken HRT and how long since you either stopped it or reached menopause.

Even without understanding it is intuitive that the hormonal "milieu"  (mix and balance) during our fertile years is the best for maintaining our health as well as our sexual health ( notwithstanding the excellent banner about exercise, processed food and rest).

That being the case - during our fertile years we had high oestrogen - which varied cyclically, and decent levels of testosterone - which also increase around the time of ovulation. This is only to be expected because in biological/evolutionary terms we need to reproduce and therefore need to have a good libido when its going to have an effect ie fertilisation of an egg.

So it follows that when these are reduced after menopause for many women, desire follows - and plummets! It is logical therefore to replace them (other things being equal). As sheila99 says - for some women relacing oestrogen is sufficient, but for others testosterone is also needed (the problem with the latter being that there is no licensed product for women in UK).

I once knew about the sympathetic and para-sympathetic nervous system but have long since forgotten so will leave that to Elkwarning . However it is not necessary to understand this in order to understand and accept the role of attempting to replace deficient hormones in terms of HRT.

In rerms of replacing oestrogen - no the Estring will not be suffcient to make any difference to libido etc. At your age and depending how long since menopause there is more risk in starting HRT and depending on your gerenal health - BMI, diet, blood pressure, general health, and yes how much exercise you take etc etc - a specialist may permit you to start a low dose of oestrogen. If you have a uterus then the problem is the progestogen component for may women as this can cause side effects.

I would urge any woman to start thinking about this ideally when under 60 and learn from others who are older because there is no question that it is better to start earlier.

Apologies I have side-stepped the issue of the nervous system completely!

Hurdity x

[CLKD]

Decent rest would be lovely but many complain of insomnia 

[Postmeno3]

Yep, first apologies in advance as I have really bad brain fog today (M.E./CFS) so I hope this makes sense.
I really feel I very much DO need to understand what's really going on and subsequently required so that I do not lose energy on a protracted and possibly unproductive regime if I can help it. For example, it was so great to hear "Elkwarning" suggest that an imbalance in the two systems will indeed impact the supply and quality of oestrogen. Therefore, the requirement for me, rather than in general terms, may be to start by addressing the imbalances? Then, to get cortisol levels assessed, alongside DHEA so that I am then approaching the libido, VA etc (urethral also) via a very specific regime? This may mean supplementing with DHEA or Pregnenolone (deemed more beneficial than DHEA by Sarah Myhill) and going for Intrarosa and Imvaggis. Fot me, it has to be about stripping the symptoms back to the root as I do not present in typical ways as a few others here are finding with similar conditions and syndromes. Inadequate or misjudged information and response could be catastrophic!
*Hysterectomy leaving one ovary late 30's/early 40s
*Initially, progesterone and oestrogen HRT prescribed, reduced to oestrogen only with time
*Bullied off HRT, stopping overnight on instruction, ten years ago. Immediate and horrendous menopause and severe M.E. relapse. What would this have done to the SNS & PNS???
* BMI is perfect, diet is great as tailored for energy not comfort, sleep is great due to careful sleep hygiene, only exercise an obvious issue. No BP or cholesterol issues.
Phew!!!!!!!
😀