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[Scampidoodle]

Yes just really hopelessly depressed.  It’s rubbish. The only thing that ever changes is my hormones.

Is your friend trialling mini pill for peri?

Sorry the head is still bad and I hope the break from the pill resets things a bit. It’s hard making these decisions on our own with no one guiding you through it.

Hope the appt goes well tomorrow Gilla x

[Scampidoodle]

Sooo nauseous on second day of pill, is this how it goes? X

[CrispyChick]

Oh scampi... This whole thing is awful.

I'm sorry you're feeling nauseous. It's one of my constant on/off symptoms, so yes, I think that's how it goes. Renrmber I had 8 weeks of pure hellish moods on microgynon before that started to settle.

I get the nausea as my hormones go up and down. Everything you read tells you it's estrogen in pills causes nausea, but for me it's definitely fluctuations.

You are going to be taking a lot of progesterone though with the mini pill on top of mirena. Remind me again why that's what you've been recommended???

I'm still headachy. Day 3 off the pill. My tummy feels like a period is coming. That's fine... But this headache /nose stuff is driving me insane. And I was nauseous yesterday too. 🙄

[Gilla999]

Just thought I'd give a quick update after speaking to my gynae this morning. Didn't really shed anything mind blowing I didn't know already but it was definitely worth speaking to her if only just to sense check everything.

She said I'm almost certainly in early menopause from what I've been experiencing, regardless of my estrogen and FSH level test which she said are not fully reliable markers. She said low estrogen in non menopausal women doesn't tend to cause night sweats and middle of the night insomnia, which I thought was interesting, so she is pretty sure it is early menopause for me.

She agreed that Zoely was likely too weak to suppress my own hormones and that Yasmin was fine to take if it works. I asked the question if it doesn't what the next step would be and she said either (a) Qlaira, which she's had a lot of success with (something about the phased action working well) or (b) HRT. I questioned HRT and whether it would stop the fluctuations underneath  (I took it for all of (!) 10 days just before starting Zoely and it didn't stop the problems) and she said quite often you get women who feel great for a month or two and then need to come back as the dose wasn't high enough, so it may just be a case of trial and error until you find a high enough dose to suppress. She said there would be no point switching to another Pill if Yasmin doesn't work, and she said I'd know whether that was the case in another couple of months (so 3 months total). "No point" only in a sense of suppressing your own hormones - if there are side effects of that particular Pill then of course it would make sense to try another.

Interestingly she also mentioned what you said Scampi - that often it is not about what test result is low or high on paper, but about how a woman's body individually reacts to certain levels or fluctuations. Some women may be more sensitive to certain hormones or fluctuations than others and they can cause different strength side effects in different people (eg some may react badly to low progesterone with anxiety  as the main side effect for example)

Like I say no "wow" moments, but it did feel like a validation and also with the HRT that it could be another avenue to try if the Pill really doesn't work.

Hope this helps ladies xx

[Scampidoodle]

That’s good Gilla to get some validation at least. So you’re going to persevere with yasmin for now and then see? I guess hrt as the next step. Did you pay privately or nhs?

Nausea seems to go in the daytime it’s like I can feel it in the night and waking then it’s gone. I’ll persevere for now and see what next month brings. I started it early so prob in the week before my period at the mo so it won’t have stopped anything yet.

I think the thinking behind Mirena staying in was because I’m settled on it, not to rock the boat and mini pill may not work out in which case I’ll have to come off it so want to keep my Mirena in. I guess there’s no real logic to any of it! X

[CrispyChick]

Yeah, thanks gilla. Useful to hear a specialist opinion.

I've just taken another triptan as I've got yet another migraine. This is day 3 off the pill. It's killing me with migraines 😬.

I see her point on supression. Unfortunately, in my case, I think all the different pills give me different side affects. 😳. I do think they supress... Although last week's dodgy ill feeling was slightly suss.

I'm not convinced the 20mg pills supress enough, but, given the migraines, I suspect i`m heading that way...

I'm not convinced on the hrt thing though. I too only lasted 10 days because the estrogen was far too much... So there's no way I'd be going for more... I don't think it will work until my estrogen drops. But I'm not getting your symptoms of night sweats etc... So I think I'm high estrogen at mo.

Interesting feedback on the pill. There was a lady in newbie thread, only 40, been on pill a while, but doesn't feel it is working. So clearly for some, symptoms break through.

I spoke to a 52 year old friend yesterday. She's been on microgynon for years, still on it. No probs.... Now, she could be a lucky one, or could be later than a lot of us, but I'm thinking once you're on and established, it can really work for some...

Are u taking the new pill at night scampi??? Why do they think you need a double dose of progesterone??? Or is it because the mini pill stops ovulation, mirena doesn't necessarily???

And how are you feeling on yasmin Gilla???

[Scampidoodle]

Like your friend crispy if I find something that works they’ll have to fight to get it off me at whatever age!

When you both tried hrt what was it? I tried oestrogel and felt good mentally but lots of side effects physically, prob as I don’t detoxify it allegedly. Certainly tipped my histamine issues into over drive.

I too don’t get night sweats and hot flushes and I don’t think I’m menopausal, my mood is the main issue. I have low oestrogen but low FSH and oestrogen def improves my mood but I can’t hack it. Feels similar to you crispy!

Keeping the Mirena has no benefit for me with what’s going on with me really, it’s just staying as back up. It doesn’t stop me ovulating so I need the mini pill to do that really. Which apparently Cerelle does in 97% cycles so that’s good. We’ll see if it helps my moods. I know it’s not known for its mood boosting abilities but the Mirena helped me a few years ago so maybe I’m just weird. I do take it at night so I feel like o get headaches and nausea in the night that I’m aware of. Today I’ve felt really teary and low. But then I did on Saturday before I even started the pill so can’t blame it entirely.

Crispy when you said your moods were all over the shop for 8 weeks in what sense?

I guess my options are Mirena, then Eloine then god knows.

I do hope the migraine settles soon crispy. You deserve a break xx

[CrispyChick]

That makes sense scampi.

I'm defo in the weird category. I don't think I'm menopausal either... But I'm defo severely imbalanced, and probably due to age.

I tried femoston tablets. 2 weeks of estradiol alone - obviously much lower than what the pill gives me, but topping up my own. Geezo... I was all over the place. I was defo overdosing on estrogen. That's why I so der of I suffer so much trying to get on a pill, because until suppressed, it must add to your own 🤷‍♀️

With microgynon my mood was really angy and low at times depressed. Lasted 8 full weeks. Then gone! Replaced with migraines 🤣🤣🤣. If I don't laugh, I'll cry!!!! The point is... That was a pure side affect avd lasted at least 8 weeks.

Oh yes, I'm totally with my friend. I told her yesterday to never stop 🤣🤣 I wish I had never stopped taking the pill before all this!!!

Still don't know what to do. Surely if it is the pill causing the migraines/nose issue, it should be easing as I'm day 3 of break. I'm loathe to throw 3 months of microgynon away... 

[Scampidoodle]

I guess it might take longer than 3 days but hopefully not much longer.

Well we are both in the weird category then! Here’s to being weird!

I wish I’d never come off the pill when I was 30! I mean I’ve had two kids since which would have been impossible but I wish I’d gone straight back on it after!

The moods sound tough and you did well to last the 8 weeks.

[CrispyChick]

I so wish I hadn't come off Scampi. I'd just turned 40 and came off because my husband forgot to pack my toiletry bag when we went to visit his parents... I wish I'd just taken a week off and gone straight back on. But hey ho!!!! 

[CrispyChick]

I know I'm grasping at straws here, but im still pondering.

This nose feeling and subsequent headaches and migraines are only appearing since being 8 weeks into microgynon. Also had it last year on my trials of 30mg pills.

Lots of googling tells me that hormones, including contraceptive pill, can cause non allergic rhinitis... So basically swelling.

Now I already have allergic rhinitis, but my allergies are feeling under control and I'm back on my anti histamines.

I wonder if I'm getting non allergic rhinitis, swelling causing sinus headaches...

I'm not expecting anyone to have any answers on this... Although if they did, that would be amazing!!!

I am awaiting turbinate reduction surgery (due to my allergies and polyps) ... I wonder if that might help...

I so don't want to come off the pill 🙈😩 but if its causing this... Grrrr

[Scampidoodle]

It sounds like it may have exacerbated an existing condition maybe? I guess if you have allergies you may be sensitive to histamine anyway then taking more oestrogen increases your histamine levels in the body and therefore would exacerbate allergies. Hence the worse symptoms.

You can eliminate histamine in your diet or cut down. If you google high histamine foods you can see if you normally eat or drink a lot of them. If you do try cutting out for a week or two and see if it makes a difference?

[RebJT]

Hi girls

Just checking in, bit out of synch with this thread now.  I'm on day 27 of defcon 4 adrenaline and high histamine (actually today is defcon 3, or possibly 2) and period is due tomorrow, so if you are into prayers, say one for me, as I hope to Christ it arrives and resets this utter utter nightmare.  I'm rather ashamed I've only got through this hell with buckets of tears and low dose valium.

Reason for post, I've had my nuffield tests back, due to cock up of Easter, I didn't get to test on the worst, worst, worst day of symptoms, but day 22.  I was still highly adrenalised, very shaky, and very high histamine.  I expected my oestrogen to be HIGH and weirdly it's LOW.  It's 293 (82 - 1251) - normally it's way over the top of the range like Floo.

Given the test is only £35, I think I'm going to do what Floo does and book a bundle, and then book the days to coincide with points in my cycle when I'm symptomatic, but now I'm really bloomin' confused as I was certain I was in a climbing estrogen loop, and I'm not!  Also interestingly, given I had to hang on for tests into second half of cycle, I was doing 100mg utro vaginally, every other day, and had done 4 doses and had had two days off before testing and my prog was 34 (their note says above 30 indicates ovulation, clearly that might not be the case for me, but interesting such a low dose put me in the normal ./ fertile range).

I have that MTHFR thingy, which is too complicated for me to understand, my folate is now normal as I'd finally been tolerating methylfolate after my iron infusion, but my homocysteine results are ALSO LOW (again I suspected high), so think my first port of call is going to be my func med doc rather than Louise Newsom (had the form through from them and an invite to book my slot, I wrote them a very firmly worded questionnaire, saying if you don't think you can help, don't give me a slot, I'm in the last chance saloon here, no time or money to waste!).

I am wondering whether there's some other trigger for the histamine too (I do have cPTSD, histamine is part of fight or flight, and have just had my heart broken over ending a relationship, long story, right decision due to his nutty ex wife, bloody difficult), unless my hormones are swinging wildly and I just haven't caught it on a test.  Func Med wants me to do the Dutch test, to see how I'm processing my hormones, but not sure it's worth the trouble?  May also do the rhythm test, or a whole load of bloods or something.  I need to work out what's happening in my body (seeing as they haven't invented the Aliens body scanner yet), like Gilla I don't get why nobody is interested in matching up really high symptomatic days with hormone levels.  Is there anything else that it'd help to know?  FSH, LH?

I'm now off work for two more weeks, this truly has been the worst bloody month of my life, I'm skinter than skint and just about hanging on to my sanity ...

What on earth is going on?  Any ideas?

Reb
x

[CrispyChick]

Hi Reb.

Sorry, absolutely no idea of wgat is happening with you. But wanted to post to say I had read. You were going to be trying a pill, were you not??? Would it be better to just go and try it...?

Mind you, I'm in headache hell. Day 5 of my constant headache/migraine/nose pressure. So weird.

I'm on day 4 of my break from microgynon. Apart from the horrific headaches (they seem to move to different parts of my head too) then period has arrived fine. All totally manageable. Mood fine (unusual for me on a break) No idea what I'm going to do... But I'm thinking try back on microgynon tomoz in the hope the main migraines the last few days have been due to dropping hormones. But... I only took the break because of migraine...

  going round in circles. I'm laughing again, or I'll cry!!!

[Gilla999]

I was wondering how you'd been getting on Reb, I'm so sorry it's still so bad for you. Interesting about your estrogen readings. My estrogen reading from a blood test in November before I went on Zoely and during my symptomatic period was 245 so even lower than yours (and a huge climb down from the sky high levels it had been for the previous two years). I was toldby the first rubbish doctor I saw it's not low enough to be causing my issues as it's still considered at the low end of normal range. It was only when I spoke to my gynae this week that she tended not to place so much importance in either the estrogen level or the FSH because they can vary so much depending on whether you've ovulated or not, and because as I mentioned in her experience women can be sensitive to different things which is why she diagnoses on symptoms primarily.

Low estrogen also causes a drop in serotonin which is connected to the flight or flight (and also regulates temperature, hence the night sweats for me). Might be worth researching a bit.

I'm still doing the rhythm test although I admit I've been a bit lax and not done it every other day like you're supposed to, but as I'm not testing in a cycle I think it's ok. I'd like to share with you ladies the results page so you can get a feel for what it looks like - not sure of the best way to do that? Again I'm not pushing it, as I know doctors scoff at saliva tests and it is £235, I just know previously it was accurate for me.

My night sweats started with a vengeance about 4 nights ago and the last 2 nights I've had middle of the night insomnia along with them, though I've so far managed to alleviate it a bit with taking valium at 4am. It's far from ideal, but I'm being as careful as I can be with it.

Crispy do you think the migraines are connected to the nose feeling or separate? I guess I'm thinking if you have surgery that will hopefully address that problem, and you might be able to stay on Microgynon - but not if the migraines are separate and continue. Just one thing to add - when I get my episodes I also get a stuffy inflamed nose feeling. I read low estrogen can cause this in the days before your period. But I know that is counter to what you've experienced with high estrogen etc xx