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[Bring me Sunshine]

Hi Help!

I am struggling big time to find a balance with hrt anti depressants now been bitten by horse flies on antibiotics it never ends.

I wont go into the whole story (it is on here). So after nearly a year of being wrongly diagnosed of just being depressed for no reason 2017 I finally got stable on hrt and remained so for 2 years.  Fast forward to Dec 2019 all the old symptons came back night sweats/anxiety but the worse one depression. Estadiol tests showed 105  so then followed me increasing to patches and gel and testosterone  going on sertraline up to 200mg to get "me" back.  I had about 2 weeks of "normal" after about 3/4 months then dipped again bloods had showed 800 in this "normal" period and then steadliy rose to 2149! Dreadful again and was told to come off the hrt altogether for a week and then start all over again on a 50 patch(im on the mirena coil).  They put me on a CBT course (it was okay all the things i would do when well but hard when your hormones are all over the place).  The dr dosent really know what to say the menopause lady rang and she said depression really isnt a typical menopause sympton and she has seen good results(she is a gp too) with her patients on lithium!!  I looked it up and it seems like its used a lot for bi polar depression which I havent got and looks a bit scary.  Also mentioned quietiapine.  The thought of coming off another anti depressant and going on another fills me with dread when I know in my heart of hearts this is hormone related(I tried five anti depressants in 2017 none of them touched the depression till I went on hrt and I came off the anti depressants and stayed well).  The menopause gp said that I would be in the top 3 of worst menopause symptons that didnt reassure me at all as I continue to function/work/food shop/cook meals but it just feels like going through the motions.  I feel like I have lost hope in getting well again.

Any thoughts gratefully accepted I feel like im the only one although she said im in the top 3 so there may be 2 above me worse or im the worst it filled me with dread and no hope.

Thanks

[CLKD]

Hi!

Hormones can cause mood dips and highs.  Some ladies do well once they find an HRT which suits them as it lifts moods, others require HRT and an ant-depressant medication.  Which AD are you taking?  I've been well since 1988 on various tablets along with anti anxiety 'as necessary' tablets.

Have you been to a menopause clinic?  Some GPs and gynaecologists have no idea about HRT over-all. 
Which symptom would you like to ease first?  Do U keep a mood/food/symptom diary?

What on earth did the menopause GP mean exactly?  What would she/he consider to be the top 3 symptoms, I've never heard such rubbish as we are all different.

[CLKD]

Lithium is not a drug to be prescribed lightly.  Usually for psychosis or uncontrolled depression, maybe have a chat with a Pharmacist to get more information?  Also, it requires regular blood tests to make sure that the dosage remains correct.  My Dad had it prescribed for years. 

[Bevey]

This menopause "specialist" clearly has no idea what she is talking about! To say that you are in the top 3 of worst symptoms is simply irresponsible. I have had terrible depression going through the menopause. I have also read countless stories of women who are similar to both you and I. If you go back in history, there are accounts of women being institutionalized during this time, so it can be severe, and you are not alone. Like you, I have tried various antidepressants and HRT. Sometimes I feel well, but I never know when this is going to happen. It can be minutes, hours, days, or weeks, when my hormones shift, and I feel well, but when it is bad, it is a terrible struggle to get through, but I always persevere.

This is a hormonal problem, and it is also a temporary problem, even though it might not feel like this right now. No woman is ever going to suffer this forever! I promise. When your hormones settle down, so will you.

That's amazing that you are able to carry on in spite of such overwhelming symptoms. It shows you how truly strong you are!

Have you ever watched any of Eckhart Tolle's You Tube videos? He talks about learning to accept the current situation and not get carried away with your thoughts. This has helped me from having swirling, negative thoughts. It has given me some separation from my experience. Remember, this is something that is happening to you, it isn't you, and you will fully recover. That's a certainty.

Big hugs,

Bev xo

[Bring me Sunshine]

Hi

Thanks so much Bevey and CLKD.  The menopause gp was from the menopause clinic it was a telephone appointment.  Sertraline is the anti depressant and worked great for me in 2013 when grief over my Dad turned into depression.  It worked within 3 months and I was back to normal.  In 2017 when menopause happened it never touched it nor did any of the other anti depressants they put me on the last one they tried was venlaflaxine 300mg!! crazy high amt then I got on the right amount of hrt at that time was 3mg elleste solo and was completely well.

This time I thought that an anti d and hrt would be a good idea when it was suggested hasnt touched it.  I just have to keep trying and keep on keeping on by God is hard but nice to know Im not alone in the "top 3"she was suggesting that hrt shouldnt be relied on long term to solve pyscological problems I get that but when the problems are hormone related what do you do?  I was prepared to stay on hrt for ever if it balanced me I didnt realise things would dip.

Thanks again xx

[CLKD]

Maybe keep a diary?   Remember when your last monthly period was regular?   How you feel every day, it will give an idea as to the highs and lows.

Oestrogen levels can rise and fall, there is always a little floating around which may impact on your own levels. 

I wouldn't bother seeing her again ........... you could of course send an e-mail to Dr Currie: one single query for a cost, details above somewhere. 

[Baby]

Bring me sunshine, I have a wonderful family and friends. Have a wonderful husband and my life has never been better. Yet my life most days is shit mentally. Anxiety and panic attacks. According to the doctor I am depressed. So it's just a coincidence that my periods have stopped, my sleep is crap my eyes ears and lady bits are dry as a bone. I itch a lot, I have no sex drive among most other symptoms  no it isn't the menopause that's causing me to feel so I'll because he told me that HRT always works well for every other lady he has prescribed it for !

[CLKD]

Baby - change your GP!  speak to the Practice Nurse? 

Anxiety can be eased by appropriate medication regardless of what is causing it.

[Bring me Sunshine]

Baby

I agree with you.  The response to me was you need to retrain your brain hence they put me on CBT.  I could have ran the course I knew it all as it was how I lived my life before this hormone hell started.  I was positive confident liked myself liked other people planned outings liked seeing friends etc etc not this shadow I have turned into who yearns for lockdown so I dont have to explain why I cant go to wherever......!

So my next apointment is for a mental health nurse to call me to see if I have problems in my life or past life!!!  They just dont get the hormine connection do they.  COurse I have had problems you dont get to 54 without bereavements divorces infertility etc etc everyone has ups and downs but ive been there talked it out and its the past.  I like you have a lovely family understanding husband (how much longer for who knows) good friends who stay but none of that means anything in this state of mind.  You even question if you still love everyone but I think thats more that you dont love yourself or this self you have become.  If that makes sense.

So I will have the mental health chat as I wont discount anything that could make me well but the thought of more anti depressants weaning off and on like I did in 2017 fills me with dread!  I said on another post if I knew electric shock therapy was the answer to all this I would have that but if you mention that to anyone they just see the image of Jack Nicholson in One flew Over the Cuckoos Nest!!

I dont know the answers I may well email Heather again I have many times in the past.  I did only pay once but I must have emailed her about 4 times, is that wrong?

Keep on keeping on they say in AA and no i havent an alcohol or drugs problem only hormones and anti depressants xx

[DS68]

What a relief !

It's really is me your talking about sure. You know I sailed through life until
The menopause and since my first feeling of " I feel a bit strange" it all went down hill. And pretty fast too, too fast for me to keep up.  I've been on antidepressants fro many years high dose of serttraline, sadly for me I have no idea when I started they were addictive and the withdrawals are awful.  I am forever feeling ashamed of myself for my long term dependency which I've kept secret until last year.  I started hrt after about 18 months of suffering various symptoms which became worse and definitely included feeling depressed.  I am feeling ok now on the gel every day and tabs 12 days a month.
I often feel a failure.but I know that's just a confidence issues since the Meno started and I became anxious about many things.

I've lost count of the times I been to the nurse and just burst into tears. I do believe with the menopause it's something I'm beginning to live alongside.  I have like many good and not so good days but the difference now is I don't panic about not having good days all.the time, whereas I used to think omg what's wrong with me !!!

I'm getting some CBT like many I will give anything a go. It may help or may not.... Nothing ventured as they say.

I was with a lady today who is sixty something and I asked her how she got on during peri - she said nothing at all she recalls getting hot a few timea 🤪

I said ahhhh yes me too just dealing with it as you do - if she only knew the mess I've been in over the past 2 years.

I'm still having regular and heavy periods won't.mind if they stop ,,, have a lovely husband who tries to help bless, but mostly just agreed with me 🤣😂

Also my youngest is only 11 so being kept busy still.

Noone is alone - whether depressed, anxious, or both. We all have it have had something and all empathise I hope.

I've started getting that chicken neck skin and lots more wrinkles. Gosh I hate it so much, just crept up on me  If I could I would have surgery or buy expensive miracle creams.
Any cheap grandma miracles for wrinkles or chicken necks or is it turkey necks 🤔🙄. Anyhow they're welcome so please post.
Love to all xxx

[CLKD]

Acceptance.  People age.  I am too busy to keep looking in the mirror and if 1 doesn't like bat wings, there are some lovely coverings to wear over a camisole.  I remember my paternal Gran who had bat wings etc but her skin overall was soft and supple: it never seemed to bother her generation, it was what it was.  She was busy getting on. 

I am forever feeling ashamed of myself for my long term dependency which I've kept secret until last year. . Had you needed diabetic treatment?  Or medication to control a heart condition?  Not many ADs are addictive ....... but weaning off can take a while under medical support.  I can't remember the name of my AD that I had to stop - it took 9 weeks, initially I would feel ill and think "I'll never get off this" but realised that after 36 hours the bounce back feelings didn't get worse.  If only people could talk to those of us who have managed to wean off!

CBT did nowt for me as my phobia was instigated within hours of being born so heavily engrained.  It was desperation on behalf of the NHS who were running out of ideas.  With menopause however, GPs really require more knowledge about how anxiety and depression are affected by hormonal upheaval !?!?

I would ban electric shock treatment - brutal and really doesn't achieve very much.   . Also it can be given without consent 

BMSunshine - if you get answers that help by sending Heather an e-mail then go for it.  Make notes ;-)

[Hankypants]

Hi there, I’m sorry to be jumping on your bandwagon but I could really do with advice too.

In 2014 I got extremely bad anxiety. It just hit me one night. 26th sept 2014. Just out of the blue.

I went to the doctor and was put on citalopram. I didn’t improve. I went back. They upped the antidepressants. I felt worse. I was either climbing the walls with anxiety or in full panic mode.

I kept asking if it could be menopausal (I was 48) they said “no and even if it was they would just give me more citalopram”. They carried on upping the dose until I was on the maximum 40mg.

It wasn’t until January (by which time I’d resigned from my job) that my friend brought me an article Professor Studd had written about Oestrogel. I emailed him and he told me what to get. 3 pumps of oestrogel. Anyway. I felt better within days. I couldn’t believe it. I had the coil fitted a few months later.

Anyway. Long story slightly shorter over the years I managed to wean myself down to 10mg citalopram.

Skip ahead 5 years. This month I’ve ended up with severe anxiety again. It’s debilitating. I am a wreck. My youngest son heads to uni in October and I want to enjoy him before he goes not frighten him.

I spoke with my local menopause doctor. She has been wonderful over the years. She said to up my oestrogel to 4 pumps a day rather than increase antidepressants again.

But. Stupidly. I’ve messed up I think.

Before I phoned my doc for new oestrogen routine someone told me about sertraline. I have never felt like citalopram helped me at all. I never felt it had my back. I asked the nurse practitioner about sertraline and she agreed to prescribe it too.

I started on 4 pumps of oestrogel on 17th July. But I was frightened of changing to sertraline because of side effects. They are both SSRIs so I don’t need to come off one before I start the other. Plus I was to start on half dose.

Anyway Thursday night I changed over to sertraline. Felt a bit better Friday but that can’t have been because of antidepressant already.

Tonight I feel awful. Like really really dreadful. I’ve had 2 nights of sertraline but feel ready to pack it in and stick to citalopram.

Keep thinking if I go back to citalopram then at least I know if I improve it’s because the oestrogel. But then I’ve wasted two days getting on to sertraline and not stuck with it.


I am absolutely terrified. Terrified.

[CLKD]

It may be nothing to do with the ADs.  If you had anxiety you should have had a dedicated anti-anxiety medication, but for now, don't swap.

It may be that 4 pumps every night is too much.  Your hormones could be kicking in which will impact on the HRT.  So perhaps try 4 pumps twice a week initially?  Once you feel better consider weaning off the ADs if they aren't helping.  Some do require both to find an even keel.

GPs seem to think that depression and anxiety can be eased with the same medication, from past experience ........... 

 

[Hankypants]

Thanks for the reply. Dreadful night. I was already on 3 pumps so surely one more wouldn’t be too bad?

I’m terrified.

[CLKD]

Of course it's scary when we become aware of our bodies.  Maybe try 4 tonight and 3 tomorrow and see how you feel?  Alternative for a few nights?