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[Marchlove]

Oh and you can’t go by serum it has to be saliva x

[CrispyChick]

Oh. I think I'll maybe not bother with that then. 

[Marchlove]

 But if you’re deficient it can be a game changer!
Cortisol/ Dhea ratio is so important, in my opinion far far more important than sex hormones.
This is why some women sail through the menopause. They suffer the same drastic decline in sex hormones, but they have healthier adrenal and thyroid function and that compensates for the loss.
You might or might not fall into that category CrispyChick, but it’s just worth you keeping in mind. x

[Uptick]

You two sound very knowledgeable on DHEA.

Why would I need it??? My level is 4.4.looks OK to me. But my clinic had me start DHEA and Testosterone as a cream.

I stopped a, while back, as I was worried it might increase my estrogen, vwhen I'm trying to increase my prog.

But! I stopped after I had bought a rather large tube of my compounded cream, so I might restart in future.

So... What would it do for me??? The DHEA I mean. 

Hi CrispyChick, I'm not knowledgeable about DHEA or anything else, just a curious learner I don't think you need DHEA unless your levels are very low, which is normal as we get older, but some people argue that it could help your own body produce estrogen, but I don't think there's a lot of evidence to support that. There is some evidence that it can boost local oestrogen production when used vaginally (Intrarosa pessary). DHEA-S (the version of DHEA that has a sulfur radical added by specific enzymes in the adrenal cortex) is actually a neurosteroid and neurotrophin and low levels have been associated with PMDD. These women seem to have low activity of these adrenal cortex enzymes.

[Marchlove]

I can very much identify with the low activity of the adrenal cortex enzymes Uptick!

CrispyChick- I decided to experiment and take my progesterone in the morning and guess what the nausea returned! Morning sickness in action!

So, is the answer low dose vitamin C?

https://thecompounder.com/morning-sickness-vitamins-c-k/

Going to try this out with a squeezed lemon and my vitamin D has K2, not the right K apparently but needs must.

Also, I forgot to take the progesterone with my breakfast so that wouldn’t have helped.

X

[CrispyChick]

Oh. Interesting Marchlove.

I'm taking it twice a day. Right enough, I don't notice any nausea at night. But when I wake it's at its worst. Today when I took my morning troche I felt very sick. They leave quite a bitter aftertaste too... So that's not helping.

I don't think I dare take it all at night. I get vaguely headachy waiting for my evening dose as it is.

Now... I suffered from really bad nausea at the beginning of all my troubles... This is a different nausea. It defo feels like side affect, so should lift hopefully.

My worst symptom is the wooziness. I think this too is side affect. Getting it with troche, like I did with cream. I do feel the troche is a lot stronger. But also maybe dips up and down more.

I actually think prog is working for my symptoms now... Just giving me rubbish side affects... Some of which are similar to my symptoms...ahhhhhhh

Are you still swallowing the troche Marchlove???

I just had a thought... I wonder if we can use troche vaginally??? 🤔

I've just emailed my compounding pharmacy to ask their advice on delivery routes and side affects.

[CrispyChick]

  just checked, I take bit c 20mg in my daily vit spray... Also k1. Don't think they're my answer.

Interestingly, woman in pregnancy (not in UK I assume) take prog for morn sickness. Go figure 🤷‍♀️

[Marchlove]

Yes I’m swallowing the troche because of the mouth ulcers, but yes I can confirm that you can use the lozenge vaginally as my specialist told me to give it a try when I spoke to her last week. I haven’t tried it yet but will do so.

The nausea wore off quite quickly after the lemon so I do think that aspect is abating somewhat.
But I’ve been very irritable all day!

I’m going back to taking it in the evening. x

[CrispyChick]

Why did u change to morning???

I'm wondering if the morn dose is a problem for me... I'm feeling semi decent right now, after a woozy day. But... I do tend to get headachy as I near 12 hours...hmmm not sure which is the lesser of the evils.

I do wonder... (And it's only my own thoughts after being on other groups where they supplement with prog) if maybe the stop/start approach of prog as used as part of HRT is responsible for some of the issues?!  Like u say, you've got low mood.. I get spikes of low mood as I go up/down doses, or try to settle. Maybe taking the break means your body never gets used to it 

I'm going to be taking continuously this time.

[CrispyChick]

Cherry troches vaginally... 

[Marchlove]

Cherry, well there’s a thing!

No real reason for morning dose apart from some research stuff that said progesterone circadian rhythm meant progesterone is higher in the morning, so thought a would give it a whirl. That’s how scientific I am!
Progesterone also decrease’s prolactin levels, which should be lower in the day, so that was also an influence.

Anyway, didn’t like it, so sticking to 6pm which I think I was beginning to settle on. Who knows as time goes on maybe I’ll be able to bring it forward to earlier in the day.

I know what you mean about the spikes, but as with the menstrual cycle which has one low and then one high (in simple terms), I think the body needs the same on/off with progesterone on its daily cycle.

Wonder if other members watching this thread have any similar experiences of circadian rhythms and timing of taking progesterone? X

[CrispyChick]

Just had a really interesting good chat with my pharmacist (much more helpful than my doctor). I'll share:

She tells me that with the lozenge you absorb about 50-60% buccal and the rest via oral. If you place under tongue, more will go down oral route. Happy for me to try that if I'm still getting side affects. However, oral brings metabolised changes, which I've read lots about.

She said lozenges can be taken vaginally to try that route, but would need to have the sweetener removed to avoid irritation. An easy possibility.

Best of all she said if I'm still finding it difficult she can speak to my doc and get my route of administration changed... Woo hoo. No clinic fee 😁.

She was so helpful. Some people feel bad on low doses (like I did) but also on high doses (like many). It's finding that sweet spot.

The cream obviously avoids the GI tract. Personally I think the cream absorption wasn't strong enough for me, resulting in too low a dose. I am OK on the lozenge but still getting woozy and shaky after taking... And very vague/spacey. Not very sharp 

Other option would be slow release pill.

She says only give it 2 weeks before changing route if need be. Suppose its not changing med, just route of administration.

[Marchlove]

Oh thanks for sharing CrispyChick.

I must admit I’ve not been to happy about taking the lozenge orally but wasn’t able to use in my mouth as you know.

That’s interesting about the sweetener, my specialist didn’t mention that, so not sure I should try it with the one I’ve got?

Didn’t know there was a slow release one either! Which route of administration would that one be be?

You might get on with the drops that MaryG said she uses, I thought about that for myself but am concerned I’d get the same oral issues.

[CrispyChick]

Interesting pattern developing here.

I can actually feel the troche rise and fall. Its pretty awful.

The rise brings wooziness, vagueness (spacey I guess), mild nausea, at times and terrible agitation..lasts about 4 hours then that all drops to low mood and irritation... Then drops later to feeling OK... But Mildly headachy as I await my 9pm dose!!!

Much more volatile than the cream - which left me in that steady state of wooziness and didn't seem to ever drop to anything else..

Sigh.

So, perhaps I just try at night. I sleep fine. I'm worried about the withdrawl headaches though.

 

[VictoryV]

That’s interesting Crispy.
Can you cut the lozenges into smaller pieces and take equal amounts more frequently and double when you’re in bed?
I don’t know what one looks like, what progesterone it contains or if cutting it onto 6/8 is poss?