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[Mary G]

I have just checked with the pharmacy and I can confirm that my progesterone drops DO NOT contain PEG.

Having read up on PEG, it would appear that a lot of medication contains it including my migraine preventative treatment.

Allergic reaction seems to be quite extreme but I suppose it's possible to be sensitive to any medication that contains it.

[Marchlove]

Thank you for checking with your pharmacy MaryG, very kind.

[dangermouse]

Hey, I also found the lozenges (I had the waxy squares in the blue case that cuts them when you close it tight) absorbed too quickly and left too quickly causing more volatility.

I went back to the cream as it dripped thorough more gently.

I did find that I could only tolerate it when my own oestrogen finally came down and I still needed at least 100mg a day, even with oestrogen very low, 50mg seemed to stir everything up.

[CrispyChick]

Hello Dangermouse!!!

Och, I'm just fed up of this shenanigans!!! Been up and down like a yoyo on the troche this week. Higher doses definitely give me awful woozy and nausea. Lower doses... Give be different woozy and nausea avd ear pressure ... Almost like my original symptoms. Cant win.

I'm now only on only 25mg at night. Can't tolerate the side affects of taking it during the day... It also seems to induce horrific aggitation.

I need to stick it out consistently. I know. The graphs on Wikipedia point to the troche being much greater absorption than cream or oral... But yes... It does leave quicker.

Anyway, prog aside, I've now concluded the DHEA that I took alongside Testosterone for 7 1/2 weeks was not responsible for making me feel awful - but it did indeed keep my mood steady and make me calm. So I'll be getting back on that... But I really want to try and stabilise the prog first.

I'm at the point where I'm wondering. If there's any point continuing with prog... But:

No migraines 
No fluey feeling 
No horrific pmt avd paranoia 

These are good things, right? I'm just sick of feeling nauseous avd woozy. 😭

[Kelrob12]

Hello Dangermouse!!!

Och, I'm just fed up of this shenanigans!!! Been up and down like a yoyo on the troche this week. Higher doses definitely give me awful woozy and nausea. Lower doses... Give be different woozy and nausea avd ear pressure ... Almost like my original symptoms. Cant win.

I'm now only on only 25mg at night. Can't tolerate the side affects of taking it during the day... It also seems to induce horrific aggitation.

I need to stick it out consistently. I know. The graphs on Wikipedia point to the troche being much greater absorption than cream or oral... But yes... It does leave quicker.

Anyway, prog aside, I've now concluded the DHEA that I took alongside Testosterone for 7 1/2 weeks was not responsible for making me feel awful - but it did indeed keep my mood steady and make me calm. So I'll be getting back on that... But I really want to try and stabilise the prog first.

I'm at the point where I'm wondering. If there's any point continuing with prog... But:

No migraines 
No fluey feeling 
No horrific pmt avd paranoia 

These are good things, right? I'm just sick of feeling nauseous avd woozy. 😭

Hi,

I've just read most of this thread and what stood out is the dizzy woozy feeling. I never had migraines before HRT, but did always get a bad headache before my period. Since HRT I still get a headache starting Utrogestan but it seems to go after a day or So again. The past 2 months I've had like a migraines where I can get out of bed but its accompanied with dizzy, spaced out nauseous feeling. I did have Labrynthistis 13 years ago and ever since my inner ear is weak so Im sensitive to balance. I also think I have mild tinnitus. I thought it was the progesterone but last night I had the feeling and haven't started my Utogestan. Do you think it may be also estrogen related? Or maybe nothing to do With hormone sin may case haha

Im wondering if I need a lower dose progesterone to balance estrogen. Its an awful feeling tho isn't it the dizzy sick feeling!

x

[Kelrob12]

Oh I forgot to add - I read too you guys mentioned the supplement DIM. did anyone feel dizzy taking this?
x

[CrispyChick]

Hi Kelrob

I don't think I can really help you - as I'm still in a mess myself, trying to figure it all out.

How long have you been on the HRT??? If its just started since, then yes, most probably hormonal changes.

I seem incredibly sensitive to changes, which I think explains why my own hormonal fluctuations were giving me horrific symptoms.

All I can say is that each route of administration of prog gives me symptoms... Oral, cream, troche. These are side affects, but quickly tip over into improving or exacerbating my own woozy symptoms... If that makes sense.

So, as I'm aware that prog is stopping my migraines and pmt... I'm plodding on trying to find a route/dose that gives me least symptoms and I can stabalise on.

I think the important things for you:
Are you new to hrt? In which case it maybe needs tweaking.
If you're not new... Your own hormones might have shifted, and hrt needs tweaking???

Sorry I cant be more help. Other than to validate that woozy motion sickness is horrific and I sympathise x

P. S oral prog does create many other metabolites - some of which are known fir dizziness etc.. That's why oral should only be taken at night.

And, that's why I can't for the life of me understand why the nhs have only approved oral at high doses!!!

[dangermouse]

The DIM did cause headaches for 3 days but now I take every morning without any side effects. I have now added Glutathione (which I take at night) which deals with Liver phase 3 and the results have been quite dramatic.

The DIM had already reduced the poisoned feeling and even though I still had the palpitations, I didn't feel the anxious feeling (which seems to be linked with oestrogen volatility). However, the glutathione has also stopped the palpitations completely, as it provides the fuel for the liver to behave as it did when we were younger.

I also gave one to my friends who was drinking heavily one night and he was amazed as no hangover at all!

For me, a clearer digestive system (liver, gallbladder, pancreas, bowels) is the key to being able to process volatile hormones, which these 2 supplements are addressing.

CrispyC - That seems sensible to add back in the DHEA now to see if any improvements. I think your reaction to the different ways of taking progesterone suggests that you get the benefits regardless, but that, at this stage, it will never be strong enough to act as a fire blanket on the spiking oestrogen. In which case the low dose seems the most sensible for now.

[Kelrob12]

Hi Kelrob

I don't think I can really help you - as I'm still in a mess myself, trying to figure it all out.

How long have you been on the HRT??? If its just started since, then yes, most probably hormonal changes.

I seem incredibly sensitive to changes, which I think explains why my own hormonal fluctuations were giving me horrific symptoms.

All I can say is that each route of administration of prog gives me symptoms... Oral, cream, troche. These are side affects, but quickly tip over into improving or exacerbating my own woozy symptoms... If that makes sense.

So, as I'm aware that prog is stopping my migraines and pmt... I'm plodding on trying to find a route/dose that gives me least symptoms and I can stabalise on.

I think the important things for you:
Are you new to hrt? In which case it maybe needs tweaking.
If you're not new... Your own hormones might have shifted, and hrt needs tweaking???

Sorry I cant be more help. Other than to validate that woozy motion sickness is horrific and I sympathise x

P. S oral prog does create many other metabolites - some of which are known fir dizziness etc.. That's why oral should only be taken at night.

And, that's why I can't for the life of me understand why the nhs have only approved oral at high doses!!!

Hi,
thanks for the reply, I've been on HRT for 3 years. I was 39 when I had my ovaries removed - the surgeon was very blase about it saying its not a big deal just supplement with hrt! How wrong he was! I should be pretty stable with my hormones - I know some are produced other places than ovaries though. Maybe the NHS, who seem to say, only oestrogen is the main one aren't really correct  given I feel crap and cant get it right just with estrogen - makes me wonder! I think there's such a balance and anything knocking on elf the hormones out means its just so hard to get back. Delicate balance.
x

[CrispyChick]

An update of my hell.

So I swapped from the prog cream to the troche. The cream never worked for me, I felt constantly woozy.

The troche. Same story - so higher doses of prog cause me intense nausea and wooziness. I conclude this is side affect. But too much to bear.

So I've found a dose of troche that doesn't give me the side affects. 6.25mg. Woo hoo.

I've now been on that 6 nights. I instantly feel it when it's absopted. It knocks me out. That's no problem at night. But omg...i totally believe In the stimulation of estrogen at low doses. Geezo... I'm in hell.

So I'm at my absolute worst. Sick, motion sickness, extreme anxiety and horrible horrible ear inflammation. These are my worst symptoms of high estrogen. So it is clearly antagonising. The ear thing I had right at the beginning of my peri symptoms and its awful. Not really had it since. I think high estrogen inflames the eustachian tubes. I'm trying a decongestant today.

So... I plan to ride this out. Nuts, right??? But I get side affects at higher doses.

Also, the prog is working for my mood, pmt and migraines. I need to get past this estrogen stimulation.

I am in hell. 

Any support appreciated. I will get there 😁

[Marchlove]

Hi CrispyChick

Sorry to hear of your continued hell.

You could try taking it orally like I do, straight after your evening meal, which is also suggested for the Utrogestan if you have severe nausea and wooziness. x

[CrispyChick]

Thank Marchlove.

I'm not getting the woozy/nausea, side affect now I'm down to my tiny 6mg prog dose - which was the plan. Reduce until I no longer get side affects.

What I'm getting now is an upsurge in my estrogenic symptoms. My worst symptoms. According to a lot ice read, a low dose will up regulate my estrogen receptors for a while.

So, I don't want to change again, if I can help it. But I do need moral support to get through it 

Very full ears again today, feel so yucky. Tired and flat. Plodding on. 

[Marchlove]

Moral support being sent CrispyChick in truck loads!

I think you’re a marvel to keep plodding through, researching and gaining so much knowledge of your own body a long the way.

I understand your reluctance to change the route and oral not a good route anyway. I’m about to start using vaginally now that I’m sort of tolerating 25mg. My remaining symptom is irritability which I internalise to avoid hurting other people. It’s so odd, the true me watch’s this mood and it can make me smile as I know it’s not really me!

Yes I’d read that about the up regulation of the estrogen receptors but it’s something I’m not at all clear about.

Keep us in the loop as I think quite a few people watch this thread.

By the way I had my scan and the endometrium was 5mm. Phew! Waiting to see what my specialist says about my progesterone dosage…I expect she’ll want me to increase though.

Big hugs xx

[CrispyChick]

I think I must be crazy to be putting myself through this. I'm at 9.25mg troche now. Had the worst week. Ear pressure and vileness. Two of my original symptoms... So I do believe the low dose is stimulating my estrogen.

I'm not sick or woozy though... So no side affects.

Thanks for the kind words Marchlove. I just wish there was a guarantee at the end of this.

I need to find my sweet spot where I get rid of my estrogenic symptoms but avoid side affects.

No matter how low the dose It helps my migraines and mood swings. But boy, its been a rough week... 😒

[Marchlove]

Hi Uptick, Mary G et al

I came across this interesting study regarding cortisol rhythm during the menstrual cycle.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fendo.2020.00311/full


I think it’s very interesting. I’m going to look at my Dutch test regarding the two estrogen pathways but it seems to be quite conclusive that progesterone lowers cortisol. Would you agree? x