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[groundhog]

Hi all,
As  some of you may know, my mother is brain damaged following a brain haemorrhage,  in recent years she's also developed vascular dementia and is now at end stage.  She been in and out of hospital about 5 times since October with dehydration, pneumonia, kidney infection and a further bleed on the brain.  it's been harrowing if I'm honest with all my other problems I've often felt overwhelmed by life,
She is in hospital again and is dying before our eyes, or so it feels.  She's barely eating and drinking and has lost a massive amount of weight in the last year, she is literally skin and bone.
Have any of you ladies recently lost parents whilst in hospital or a home.  It all seems rather ruthless, I'm not sure what I should be doing , she is literally starving to death yet they don't seem bothered.  She could be weeks or months from death so do we just watch her get weaker and weaker or should I be doing more , asking more questions.  They are on about discharging her to the care home but it's residential although they do take some nursing patients but it seems If they will accept her then she will be discharged to get worse and die presumably,
I feel rather confused by it all x
Just wondering if anyone has been through this 😞

[littleminnie]

Yes been through that with one of my parents.  it's a horrible time and they literally get weaker each day. I don't know that the staff aren't bothered but I think they know there isn't anything they can do. 

[CLKD]

What have the Staff told you?

Is your Mum being cared for.  End of Life happens.  The important issue is to keep people pain free, to check for bed pressure sores and to maintain hydration via gentle mouth wipes.  Is there a non-resuscitation above her bed?

Do talk to the Staff.  There should be a Geriatric Consultant in charge of your Mum's care.  What does the Matron at the Care Home suggest?  Is there a Hospice close by for advice?  Where my Mum is the District Nurses go in several times a day to give end of life care.  Important thing is NO pressure sores!

Your best option is to sit by her and talk - hearing is the last sense to disappear.  Don't talk about her or over her, about stuff that isn't of concern to her.  Weather: spring flowers: birds ...........

The body slows down naturally. If she is pain free and her lips and skin kept moist then it will be seen as a 'good death'.  Without pain or a struggle. 

[Taz2]

I really feel for you groundhog having been through it with both of mine. Luckily, if that's the right word, the Liverpool Care Pathway was still in use when they were at the end of life - well at the end of any quality of life - and I requested this for both of them. We had talked about it in the year leading up to their becoming more ill. It was still a horrible thing to have to decide though.

I have found this online and wonder if you may find some information which will be useful https://supercarers.com/blog/end-of-life-care-pathway-a-practical-guide/

We are all here for you during this difficult and upsetting time.

Taz x 

[jillydoll]

Hi Groundhog.
Im so sorry about your mom. My parents were the same. It really is a terrible time.

If shes on ?end of life care,?  then they wont be ? forcing? ( as it were) drinks and food into her, because of the risk of aspirating. They will make sure shes comfortable, and not in any pain, and really just keep her that way.
They could be moving her to a care home for, and Im sorry to say this, end of life care.

If they think shes in any pain, they will deal with that, and if you think she is then tell them.

Ask anything you like Groundhog, I remember asking tons of questions when my mom was in hospital and went from there into a care home.

It does seem very harsh, like no ones bothered, but they are, and Im sure they will look after her,  but theres only so much medical intervention can do at this stage of someones life.

Xx

[Sparrow]

The staff really should have spoken to you about the end of life care procedure.  They certainly did with my Dad and my sister and I were spoken too privately in a family room.

It's bound to be distressing but if you don't know what is going on it's even worse.  I would ask as no matter how busy they are the procedure is there for a reason.

[jillydoll]

Yes Groundhog, I'd forgotten about my meeting with the doctor, explaining to me what would happen, and about what they were going to do next.
I'm surprised they havnt arranged a meeting with you to be honest.
Like I said, go and ask, being left in the dark is even more stressful.

Xx

[sheila99]

I'm so sorry, it's a horrible time. My Dad had vascular dementia (not severe) but he stopped feeling hungry, doctor says this isn't uncommon. He looked as though he was starving to death. If you think it's a good care home I would get her there ASAP. My Dad was in a home but ended up in hospital because he fell and broke his hip and elbow. Perhaps you have a better hospital than me, no complaints about his medical attention but daily care was appalling. They either didn't bother or didn't have time to make sure he ate properly, as an example they left his food on the side of his broken arm with the lid on so he couldn't get it. He lost weight noticeably, got pneumonia and died. My mother caught norovirus in a different hospital which led to her death. Not having a meeting with the doctor is a good thing, it means they aren't expecting her to die imminently.
  The care home should have more time for your mother's daily needs as well as for you.  It's so hard but you can't force food down her throat, if she doesn't want to eat or drink there isn't much you can do except keep encouraging her. I know how frustrating it is. My Dad had some medication (can't remember what) which was supposed to improve his appetite. It slowed the rate of weight loss but he didn't put any back on. Looking at someone in that state you think they must be suffering but I don't think my Dad was until he broke bones and then it was obvious he was in pain. Definitely talk to the doctors but it may be that she's passed the point at which they can help. And talk to the staff in the care home, you need to have confidence they will do all they can to keep her comfortable.

[groundhog]

Thank you all so much for your replies.  Nothing has changed but I am in tears tonight so will reply tomorrow.   She has a small house which we rented out to help with the care home fees.  It wasn't really my decision but it's worked ok.  I went there today to check all was well and the tenants have taken everything, all the furniture, pictures everything.  Some of the furniture is irreplaceable.  So more phone calls to the letting agents and more hassle.
I am seeing doctors tomorrow.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for being here xx

[sheila99]

That's awful, you must be so stressed. You should ring the police too. I hope the LA did a proper inventory and tenant check. If you need advice or you're not sure the LA is doing everything possible  try landlordzone.co.uk forums, there are some experienced landlords there. You can get in trouble if you enter the property if they haven't ended the tenancy.

[CLKD]

groundhog - your Agency should as sheila99 suggests, have an inventory.  The Police need to be told as they probably have a history of flitting.

At any time this is distressing.  Worse for you right now.

I don't know if a care home would give any more time than a hospital would do unless they have Nursing care.  If you are able to, sit with your Mum - the important thing is to keep her lips moist and if possible, a little fluid onto the side of her mouth.  Swallowing reflex may stop so be aware that there is a choking hazard.

Not surprised but really angry that the Consultant or Sister on the Ward haven't spoken to you. 

sheila99 - I saw that situation many times when Dad was in Hospital - food put out of patients' reach, pull alarm cords wrapped high above the beds 

[CLKD]

Also - R U letting via an Agency?   Who should have advised removing anything of sentimental value B4 allowing tenants in?

[CLKD]

We aren't familiar with Death.  It's hidden.  My Gt Gran was kept at home, Mum remembers her sitting in a corner not saying much.  Then 1 day she wasn't there when Mum returned from School.  It was never discussed. Granny simply got on with caring for Gt Gran, 4 children, a husband and the chickens etc.. 

One thing is not to project how 1 thinks the patient is feeling.  Do not assume that what you are feeling is what the patient is experiencing.  Death is natural and the body slows down.  The body no longer requires sustenance.  All the digestive system etc. closes down as it's no longer required.  The important thing is to avoid bed sores so the patient requires turning every hour.  Sad to watch.  MinL was 3 days once she stopped eating and his Dad 9 hours. 

Ask any questions you like groundhog.  The Staff should make sure that you are fed and watered during your visits too.  Part of the End of Life care which includes family as well as the patient.

[Pennyfarthing]

Really sorry to hear about you Mum Groundhog and I know it's not too far away on the horizon for my Mum either (95).

When my Dad died 12 years ago he wasted away like that and it's hard to witness. he had  cancer of the oesophagus which was a secondary from the prostate.  he was in a large noisy hospital which was a 60 mile round trip but with persistence I managed to get him into a very small cottage type hospital just a few miles from home so his last week was at least peaceful.  They cared for him very well and he passed away early one morning when none of us was with him. They had not told me he was so close to death but perhaps they didn't know. 

I am equally sorry to hear about the tenants stealing stuff.  As others have said, the letting agents (if they do a proper job) should have taken an inventory and taken a substantial deposit off them when they moved in so they can withhold this.  Were they asked to leave the property or have they decided to?      Sending you kind thoughts. Xx

[CLKD]

Many people die without relatives around.  It may be their choice.  Certainly it is known that children will wait until they are alone as they don't want the responsibility of causing sorry to their parents. 

There is usually a member of staff present.  It may have been discussed too that they prefer to be 'alone' from family with the request that family aren't informed until after.