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[Hurdity]

Jari, it may not even be the fillers but the oestrogen itself.

Oestrogen is a stimulant and in its exogenous form it may simply overstimulate your nervous system which could cause both panic symptoms, which can feel as if you cant breathe, and/or be perceived as a poison by your brain.

The fact it's bio-identical can make it extra potent compared to, say, ethyl oestrogen in the pill. The purest drugs can have the strongest reactions!

I was fine if took the pill but when I tried Estradiol and Qlaira I felt poisoned and overwhelmed, even with tiny amounts.

Actually dangermouse - the ethinylestradiol in the pill is much stronger than bio-identical estradiol in terms of its afficinty for oestrogen receptors - can't remember which receptors ie where in body but yes - opposite to what you said as I understand. This is why there are greater restrictions on taking it re blood pressure, smoking and age re clot risk etc. Also its effect on the liver too.

Hurdity x

[Hurdity]

Jari - transdermal HRT (ie gel or patches) is associated with much lower risk compared with oral HRT - in terms of cardio-vascular problems clots risk etc. The warnings are always extreme but these effects are in fact very rare for any HRT otherwise it wouldn't be prescribed as it wouldn't pass the safety checks. Oestrogel is in fact also one of the HRT types with very few fillers - and like I said are all listed in the leaflet.

Stellajane - your experience is worrying (re comfort!) - as I think my experience has been similar although like I said I've only once tried to come off completely but have reduced the dose several times....I will be following your progress with great interest (and sympathy where necessary!).

Hurdity x

[sued]

Hi stellajane
I tapered off HRT gradually after being on it over 17 years. I set myself up a spread sheet so I knew where I was up to with regard to dosage and tapered very slowly over a 3 month period. Unfortunately this was over 3 years ago and I am still plagued by hot sweats, insomnia all the usual.  I think though going cold turkey would be a lot harder. I know all my symptoms have returned but it was a gradual return.

[Juliew]

I have had my hrt stopped 3 weeks ago after been on it for 5 years, by the doctor due to high blood pressure.  Flushes are back and night sweats. Getting upset again.  Hope and pray she gives me it back next week ☹️

[Alua197]

Well i am coming up 6 months off now. I tapered over 3 months also. ct was much harder whwn i tried that I have mild symptoms off but nothing like when peri hit 6 years ago that was in and out of hospital material that was! My mum amd most of her friends took hrt multiple years not one of them is still on it and they are doing fine. They all just ct off. Yes they get the odd hot flush but they live their lives. I hope you will be okay too. Xxx

[Kathleen]

Hello ladies.

I stopped my HRT eight months ago and before that I was using Oestrogel 2 pumps daily and Utrogestan vaginally.  I have mentioned before that my physical symptoms were never that bad but my mood swings really worried me and HRT didn't help with those.

The only definite change was that two weeks after finishing all HRT I developed VA with burning and itching. I tried several otc remedies but now use YesVM externally morning and night.  This has worked very well so far and I haven't needed  topical oestrogen.  My VA symptoms appear to have resolved without using any form of oestrogen and despite coming off HRT.  Although grateful I can't figure out why!  Perhaps that part of my body has adapted to it's new low oestrogen state and decided that it doesn't need to complain anymore. With any luck other parts of my body and brain will get the same message soon. I live in hope.

Wishing you well ladies.

K.

[dangermouse]

It does seem as if there is a sudden onset of symptoms like VA and libido issues which then calm down after a few months. it's probably caused by a sudden drop in hormones and then, as you say, the body adapts to the lower level and these symptoms go away.

I've worked with a few women who used one tube of the topical oestrogen and then didn't need it again.

[Hurdity]

The general consensus seems to be actually that physical symptoms of vaginal atrophy or GSM caused by low oestrogen do not in fact normally adjust but continue to develop or worsen with age or rather years post-menopause. Kathleen it sounds like you are one of the very lucky few if VA continues to stay at bay - although it is over the next few months or even years that you may notice a change.

Libido may fall dramatically at menopause because it does sometimes dramatically increase during peri-menopause due to hormonal surges, but it unlikely to recover as both oestrogen stablises at its low post-menopausal level (in the absence of HRT) and testosterone continues to fall with age along with all androgens. There are other factors too of course.

This is my understanding from what I've read.

Kathleen it also sounds like you were a special case in that the reason your symptoms did not reaolve using HRT was because you had undagnosed Hashimotos and therefore your post-menopausal symptoms were due to thryoid malfunction/deficiency/. I hope you don't mind my mentioning that on this thread - and I am glad you are faring well

Hurdity x

[Jari]

Also worth pointing out that generally most women do not suffer terribly from VA.
I have had zero problems so far 2 years post meno and I don't know any women that suffer from it, other than some on this site. Just worth pointing out for any reading. X

[Sparrow]

From the research I have done it seems 40 to 50% of women are likely to get symptoms of VA, but not all of them severe enough to see a GP.

At seven years post memo I have never had it and neither did my sister or mother.

[Hurdity]

Also worth pointing out that generally most women do not suffer terribly from VA.
I have had zero problems so far 2 years post meno and I don't know any women that suffer from it, other than some on this site. Just worth pointing out for any reading. X

That is a sweeping generalisation Jari!! As you say based on your experience and perhaps some women you know.

However like I said some physical symptoms including vaginal atrophy may not develop until some years after menopause and as stellajane says - do not realise either that it is VA (GSM) and that it is another late post-menopause symptom.

The Stages of Reproductive Ageing Workshop (STRAW) summary notes that the late post-menopause may not start until 3-6 years after the last period and if other symptoms like flushes and sweats have abated, it may not be apparent that this is a consequence of oestrogen deficiency - which becomes more prevalent the longer we live as women. The tables in that paper notes increasing symptoms of urogenitcal atrophy during this time. There will also be a genetic component I'm sure like stellajane says, and there are of course changes due to natural ageing so disentangling the latter is difficult. However would be easy to do a survey to include women who become menopausal at young ages so as to correct for age as a factor - this might have even been done already?

"LATE POSTMENOPAUSE (Stage +2)

Stage +2 represents the period in which further changes in reproductive endocrine function are more limited and processes of somatic aging become of paramount concern. Symptoms of vaginal dryness and urogenital atrophy become increasingly prevalent at this time. However, mean FSH levels fall again many years after menopause in the very elderly70; future studies are needed to determine if an additional stage near the end of life is warranted".

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3580996/

Hurdity x

[Kathleen]

Hello again ladies

When my VA symptoms began I first looked at over the counter remedies but of course I will move on to other treatments if necessary.  So far all is well with vaginal moisturiser but I realise that things may change in the future however I don't want to take more medication than I need at the moment.

Hurdity - Of course I don't mind you mentioning my Hashimoto's diagnosis, it makes a change from me talking about it lol. You make a good point about how some of my meno symptoms could be thyroid related and I'm hoping that now I'm receiving treatment I will notice some improvements.

Wishing you all well ladies.

K.

[Jari]

Hurdity.. yes, based on my experience, so far! Plus from reading, it seems around 50% of women will suffer from VA at some point, which could be mild or much worse. I'm hoping by carrying on with my hormone balancing lifestyle and diet, I will continue to have limited problems. Fingers crossed.. but so far it seems to be working well. X

[Sparrow]

I must admit I had bladder problems during peri.  One or two infections and and stress incontinence.  Post meno all is well.

[Kathleen]

Hello again ladies

If fifty percent of women do not experience VA it would be lovely to know why. This is always the frustration isn't it ladies as there must be reasons for such a wide range of experiences.  It is a pity that there is no dedicated research that could help us all better manage our symptoms.

Take care everyone.

K.