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[Kmorris]

Hello Ladies,
Please may I have some advice.
I am 62 years old, my lamp was in 2009.

In October last year I developed a UTI, I was given a course of AB which I reacted to....was given a different AB which I reacted to again. I was then put onto Amoxycillin but  each time the course finished the UTI returned....so the doctor gave me another course. My last course of Amoxycillin finished on the 15 th December.
I have an appt tomorrow afternoon with the Urology Dept. although I think the UTI has cleared up now, thank goodness.

But over the past week I have been very dry and uncomfortable down below    so I  bought some cream from the chemist ( begins with a V),  for vaginal dryness but it didn't really help.

Tonight I have felt very sore and a bit itchy ( no discharge).
I'm beginning to think that perhaps this might be thrush because of all the antibiotics?
I feel a little shaky and a bit anxious now. I really don't want to go back to the doctors as I feel really panicky about going on any more antibiotics.
Can anyone suggest something please?

[CLKD]

Your GP is way behind the times  after all those courses of ABs a GP should be looking for other causes.  Did the urine samples 'grow' bugs in the Lab.? 

It sounds like vaginal atrophy.  Do read the threads here and make notes.  As oestrogen levels drop the body may become dry: inside and out - skin, scalp, deep in the ears, nostrils, eyes, vagina ........  VA mimics urine infection-type symptoms really really well. 

Ring your Surgery B4 you go to Urology tomorrow and see if the samples were sent to a Lab. for correct anaylisis?  Let us know how you get on!

Ask for vaginal atrophy treatment either 'ovestin' or 'vagifem'.  The idea is nightly treatment for 2 weeks plus pain relief if required and then as the leaflet suggests which is usually every 3 or 4th night and every 5/6th night.  'vagifem' may be used every night as it is a very small amount and may not be enough to keep symptoms at bay.

[Kmorris]

Hello CLKD,
thank you for your reply.
Yes my urine samples were sent to a lab and always returned negative, although the dip stick test that the GP did in the surgery always said there was an infection.   I also had a deep ache in left side which she thought could be kidney stones. I had a cat scan and ultrasound which both came back as clear.

I did ring the surgery last week and explained to the receptionist ( we have to tell the reception what the problem is) that I felt 'dry' underneath and the doctor left me a prescription for vagifem.

When I got the vagifem from the chemist and saw it in the box I panicked ..
I just couldn't use the applicators....so I returned them.   I bought some cream to apply instead but that didn't work.

I thought this might be thrush after all the medication...

[jaycee]

Why couldn't you use the applicators? the vagifem would have made a huge difference,
Ask if you can have ovestin cream instead,it has an applicator, but with this you could just use fingers to apply instead with being cream

[sheila99]

If it's thrush you can buy fluconazole online. I don't think it will do you any harm if it isn't thrush but if you're worried you could ask the chemist. It could well be VA though.

[Bobidy]

Hi

Please don't worry about the Vagifem. I felt the same when I started a few weeks ago.

The first couple took me ages to nervously insert. I tried lying down, with a mirror etc and I had to gently insert a tiny bit at a time gently wangling from side to side and could feel it pushing up which wasn't painful just tentative. I'm not great at things like that.

Then I had a brain wave to put some YES moisturiser up the length of the applicator (or the YES lubricant) and pop one leg up onto the loo seat aim straight up and this was sooooo much easier.

Maybe you could try that? Just take it really slowly and gently. It says 10cm insert on the instructions which is kind of up to the applicator ridge, but you could build up to this and do it half of this which may be more comfy at first

After my 2 week nightly load it was like clockwork and takes me less than a minute now. I use Ovestin cream on the outside bits which sorted a little sore patch quickly. I do this Monday and Thursday and YES moisturiser am and pm the other days.

I am lucky that I've started using it before any major symptoms so I understand if you have a lot of internal soreness you may be worried.

I did use YES moisturiser for a couple of months am and pm before starting Vagifem.

I honestly think it is worth persevering though, even though you may have to play the long game with it before to see results. X

[Kmorris]

Thank you for all your replies, Ladies.
I know this will sound strange but I am petrified of inserting anything inside .... i have not been examined for many years because of this. I have a very deep fear of Doctors and physical examinations.... the Hospital appt. tomorrow is praying on my mind now and I know I will not get much sleep tonight.
I know I will have to call the GP again in morning and try to get an appt.
if I do have vaginal atrophy will I have to use this cream for life?

[Bobidy]

Hi

Try not to worry. The fear itself can make you clam up down there. It is so important to keep your 'bits accessible' as there may in the future be a medical requirement to check internally. The sooner you start treatment the better honestly.

I used to find smears very uncomfortable and it's only now I know the pill can cause vaginal dryness! I also didn't realise you can ask them to use a smaller speculum. I used to pop a painkiller beforehand.

Yes the VA treatment should be used for life. From the talk on here it can take some ladies many months to get things under control, depending on how bad things are but you can do it. It's literally taken me a matter of weeks. When things are getting better you'll be amazed at how moisturised it all gets.

Perhaps you could try the Ovestin (or estriol) cream on outer bits first, then manually start to insert a little, then practice with the applicators using lubricant on the applicator (you could pop a painkiller before if it's sore). Go at your own pace so you feel in control but do persevere to use something inside and out.

The estring may be an option for you as it can be inserted and removed by the nurse/doctor every 3 months, then you can forget about it. It looks a bit like a little squid ring.

Here's a couple of really interesting podcasts for you to explain things a bit better:

https://lizearlewellbeing.com/s4e2-hormones-and-utis-with-dr-louise-newson/

https://lizearlewellbeing.com/ep-56-vaginal-dryness-dr-rebecca-lewis/

Dr Newson says the vagina is amazing at rejuvenating itself again so don't give up hope.

Ignore the leaflet that comes with the treatment, there is no risk at all from this treatment. Dr Newson is fighting to get the info changed as it is inaccurate and may put women off taking the treatment.

Let us know how you get on x

[Kmorris]

Good morning Bobidy, thank you for your advice.
Last night I searched the forum and read through some old posts, I kept seeing a poster called Dancing Queen recommending Multi Gyn and so I found an all night chemist and went out and bought a tube. I have had some relief during the night and have applied some more this morning. I am hoping to be able to see the GP this morning too, I will have to tell her that I didn't take the Vagifem and returned it 
I am dreading today ....I have an appt at the Hospital this afternoon .... I have to take a sample of urine (which I have done first thing), but I am now worried that the Multi Gyn gel may have contaminated it?
I feel so shaky again, I am just so scared now and don't know what's going on down below I am so worried they say the infection is back and put me back on antibiotics....and now this vaginal atrophy problem or whatever it is. So sorry to go on so, I haven't had much sleep and I have read some posts on here and know some of the ladies are going through much worse.
Thank you all again for your advice. xx

[Bobidy]

I wonder if you should see a meno specialist for all of this. I see Dr Newson at Newson Health but there is a list on this website somewhere or on the BMS website.

You don't want to end up on an antibiotics / thrush treatment vicious cycle when it's probably all VA symptoms.

[CLKD]

You are half-way to sorting out your symptoms. 

Many women fear internal examinations.  Culturally many have been told that the area 'down there is unclean' .......... so we are not encouraged to explore or become familiar with the region below the waist. 

Practice Nurses are aware of how nervous ladies might be.  Take a note with you "I fear internal examinations so could we talk about what might be required?"  Hand the note to your practitioner.  You don't have to submit your body to anything that you are uncomfortable with. 

Many years ago I was present when a Muslim lady attended a Clinic, because she was with a male consultant she was unable to undress to be examined.  He wasn't a relative.  So the Sister and I talked this lady about her aches and pains and medication was prescribed.  She wasn't even allowed an X-ray ........ so the medical profession are aware of such difficulties.

Take a list of symptoms?  Some keep a mood/food/symptom diary to help chart.  As for 'vagifem', 'ovestin' suits me and can be applied gently without the plastic applicator.  You will need suitable treatment or the symptoms will become worse, 4 me it was like razor blades up there 

As oestrogen levels drop the body may become dry: inside and out, including the vagina.  Due to World Wide abuse of antibiotics your GP has been less than up to date ! once the sample came back from a Lab. clear he/she should have discussed different treatment options.  The dip stick test shows nowt!  Abuse of ABs will eventually cause huge problems as bugs become more and more resistant and actually, they can make people feel really ill.

Let us know how you get on.  I think that once you have explained your fear - difficult I know, I'm phobic too    - you will be able to discuss what is available. 

[Kmorris]

I have taken a thrush tablet this morning along with the Multi Gyn cream.... but still feeling quite sore. I am hoping to see a female Doctor tomorrow morning....( no lady doctors available today), and will ask if she will take a look down below, CLKD, I am going to write her a note as you suggested as once in the surgery I know panic will set in, so thank you for that idea. I understand that she might need to take a 'swab' and although I am cringing and very anxious at the though of it, I know it will have to be done.
I really don't want to make a fuss but this is quite a big phobia ... I have not been intimate for many,many years...probably twenty I think, this is by choice...so this is really, really difficult for me. sorry if this offends anyone, but I don't want to seem to be a drama queen as I'm really not.

This afternoon ...Arrived at the Hospital early for my urology appt. but 40 minutes after my appt. time a nurse told us all that the consultant had not turned up and no one knew where he was or if he would be coming in to see anyone today. Everyone had to make new appts.
Because I am a 'new patient' she couldn't give me another appt. there and then so I have to ring to find out my when my new appt. is in the morning.
What a day 
Probably a worse one to come tomorrow.

[Bobidy]

Don't worry, take a paracetamol an hour before so psychologically you know it shouldn't be too painful. There are very few nerve ending actually in the vagina anyway.

Ask the doctor if she could use a smaller speculum if possible.

Try not to tense up by deep breathing to keep your pelvic floor muscle relaxed.

Do you have smears?

Write down a few questions to get the most out of the appointment.

Say you are concerned about VA as this might not occur to the doctor. It would be good to have the check up whilst she is doing it. You could ask about the estring.

[Kmorris]

Hi Bobidy,
I've not had a smear test in a very long time... probably 10 years or more, I did have regular check ups when I was younger though.
 
I am going to write a note ( a tip taken from CLKD), to give to the Dr in case my mind goes blank explaining my fear about the examination,
 I will definitely write a note about using the smaller spectrum.

Thank you for the tips. I will write a list as I know I will forget otherwise.

I will write back tomorrow and let you know how it goes. I think perhaps the Multi Gyne is beginning to have some effect as its a bit easier down below.

[sheila99]

Perhaps you could ask for a smear while they're 'down there'? I don't like to bang on about it but I could well be dead if I hadn't gone for mine, it really is important.