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[shrosphirelass]

As I have been feeling pretty rubbish of late (similar to how I felt before HRT, but not as bad) my GP sent me for a whole range of blood tests, including estridol levels. I had an appointment yesterday and all the blood tests were fine and he said my estrogen levels were good, ie no need to increase HRT. The level was 130. As far as I understand it, that's not very high when on HRT?
 

[Hurdity]

Hi shropshirelass - if it's in pmol/l then no that is not high. In what way do you feel rubbish? Sorry I can't remember your story - where you are in menopause, peri or post, how old you are and what HRT and dose you take? Blood tests are inaccurate and just a snapshot of that moment so eg if you take patches and it was patch change day then it just might mean your levels have dropped off a bit and will rise when you change patch?

Hurdity x

[shrosphirelass]

Thanks both. I'm 57 started evorel sequi 18 months ago as still peri, but sure I must be menopausal now. Seem to be as bad on both phases so don't think its progesterone intolerance. Return of bad headaches, nausea and stomach issues. Feel similar to pre HRT though probably not quite as bad. Everywhere extremely dry, hair, skin, etc. Estriol helping with VA.

My GP will only allow me the standard dose and can't change to something else or possibily to a conti regime, to stop the fluctuations because of shortages.

[shrosphirelass]

I'm relucatnt to try utrogestan Birdy having read the negative stories on here and don't want to take anything orally due to headaches, but concerend about vaginal methods because of VA. I do think the gel would give me more felexilbility, just wish they did a progesterone based patch.

[Sgtvhilts]

I felt like shi*te and my Oestrogen was 1197!! LOL.
I have upped my own Oestrogen and guess what?- if now feel much better,  all my symptoms have gone.my GP has gone along with my plan! I am due for blood in a few weeks- i dread to think what it will be- 3000 maybe !!, but that is irrelevant, i don't really care what it is as i feel great.
MAny people won't agree with my way of doing things and that's fine, but for me it is not so much about what your blood says it is about how you feel but 130 is very low.
What HRT are you taking- any tinkering possible?

[Jaz]

Sgtvhilts
I was doing really well for over three years on everol patches. I was using 75 x 2 patches a week = 150mg. My estrogen blood test had gone up as I started  to increase my dose from 115pmol to 798 and felt great.
(I don't need conti/progesterone as had hysterectomy)

My symptoms returned and I was told by a specialist, as I was on a high dose and estrogen levels were very healthy, their explanation was, my body must have built up a resistance and it was most likely the patches were now causing my symptoms and advised to gradually lower the dosage.
I am 58 and post menopausal, its so confusing, what do others think or experienced regarding this?

[Erika28]

It's important that we understand the difference between oestrogen levels and oestradiol levels. Oestrogen is the sum of oestrone and oestradiol. Oestradiol is the one we are most interested in as it's the most potent of all oestrogens.

[Sgtvhilts]

hi,
75mcg x2 a week is a medium dose i think- might be wrong
I let you into my secret-: LOL
I am taking 2mgs of Oestrogen orally daily AND slapping 75mcg of patches on twice a week...............
It was only when i slapped on the 75 that things started to improve-big time.
Many people think my tinkering is nuts and that is fine, but i wonder sometimes if any of us are on a high enough dose at all, as many on here are still suffering despite being on treatment.
I have done what i'm doing in the full knowledge that i am increasing all sorts of risks, but i have to live now and i might get run over by a bus tonight.-many people woudl really disaprove, but they are not me.
I also dumped meno clinic- as they were just reeling off the NICE guidlines, not tailoring and trailing as you woudl think'expert' might.
So now i have a 'little arrangment' with my GP.....

[Sgtvhilts]

INteresting Erica 28.
I think/thought my Oestrogen was 1197, i might then be thinking completly the wrong thing.
GP said totally within normal limits.
DO you know the breakdown/normal limits of what each component is/should be??

[shrosphirelass]

Ive got a menopause clinic appt in February, it was September, got postponed until January and then to February so I'm really hoping they don't change it again. Hopefully, they will then be able to advise. I'm sure my GP will go along with any recommendations from them. One of the problems is the supply issue so this might mean there are very few options. Fingers crossed.

I did try going for a longer cycle with evorel sequi but was concenrned about the lining buiding up and also I don't seem a great deal worse on the progesterone cycle. Think for me, a conti regime may be better as I think the fluctuations aggravate my headaches.

[Erika28]

Having access to studies dating as far back as the 1930's and reading those pertaining to the menopause/climacteric, I'm baffled as to how even today, these troubles are being reported. The medical community, by now, should know that estrogen relieves most symptoms and if paired with progesterone, a few days every month, prevents uterine bleeding (and an increased risk of cancer) in those still having a uterus.

Estrogen is key and as far as I'm concerned, reading all the research, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind! I suspect that many of us are not given enough estrogen based on findings which are misinterpreted and not fully understood.

The fear of breast cancer is often brought up. I have extensively researched this and there is a wealth of evidence showing estrogen either does not increase the risk or even reduces it. When paired with evidence to the contrary, one can only conclude that something else is going on and that estrogen cannot be the culprit.

Misinformation, ignorance is harming women, sadly. We need doctors who are specialized in menopausal treatment as this area alone is so vast and requires many years of studies, as I've realized over the course of a decade studying this matter.

[Erika28]

INteresting Erica 28.
I think/thought my Oestrogen was 1197, i might then be thinking completly the wrong thing.
GP said totally within normal limits.
DO you know the breakdown/normal limits of what each component is/should be??

From one source:

OESTRADIOL LEVELS
follicular 74 to 368 pmol/L (20 – 100 pg/ml)
midcycle is 785 to 1,840 pmol/L (214 – 501 pg/ml)
luteal is 368 - 1,100 pmol/L (100 – 300 pg/ml)

Research indicates women feel best during the first half of their cycle (follicular and mid-cycle). Testosterone tends to also slightly increase during the follicular phase and peak at mid-cycle.

[Hurdity]

INteresting Erica 28.
I think/thought my Oestrogen was 1197, i might then be thinking completly the wrong thing.
GP said totally within normal limits.
DO you know the breakdown/normal limits of what each component is/should be??

When we talk about oestrogen levels we mean estradiol as this is the active component. This is what is measured in all oestrogen tests.

Sgtvhilts - yes that is a high level - but however it depends where you are in menopause. That would be normal for the pre-ovulatory peak when oestrogen is at its highest but if your oestrogen was at this level all the time eg if post-menopause - it could be too high, if accurate? If you are still ovulating and are fairly early to mid-peri then your own progesterone will hopefully help to keep the lining thin, otheriwse it could build up and you could get random bleeding. Also if still peri- very high oestrogen levels can suppress the cycle and thereby prevent ovulation.

Thanks both. I'm 57 started evorel sequi 18 months ago as still peri, but sure I must be menopausal now. Seem to be as bad on both phases so don't think its progesterone intolerance. Return of bad headaches, nausea and stomach issues. Feel similar to pre HRT though probably not quite as bad. Everywhere extremely dry, hair, skin, etc. Estriol helping with VA.

My GP will only allow me the standard dose and can't change to something else or possibily to a conti regime, to stop the fluctuations because of shortages.

.

If you are getting a return of symptoms and your oestrogen levels are that low - this could account for it. Have you thought about a Mirena coil as you could then add oestrogen to the level you want, and also your progestogen levels would be stable too?

Hurdity x

[Sgtvhilts]

THanks HUrdity and Erica 28
I need to clarify my blood result as yep it is high in terms of the norms Erica28 wrote.
I am somewhere in Peri- no idea where as you never know when it will stop and now i am on sequi treatment i am less likely to know what is going on !!.  I strongly suspect i am still occasionally ovulating, but i think i probably am a case in point , that even when my bloods came back 'normal' i still felt like sh^ite until i upped the Oestrogen.  I suppose that is more important to me now.
Looking back symptoms started when i was about 46 ish i am now 50
Before i 'dumped' meno clinic they were twittering about my high dose choice and my 'lining', and how i might have a huge bleed, endometerial cancer etc and i should reduce my dose to prevent this.... even though they knew i was on sequi and had good regular bleeds with nothing in between. My smart ar*se retort was "well, if you are that worried,scan me",  so my GP did and it came back at 5mm !!about 4 days before period.
I wonder sometimes if any of the 'experts' know anything.  Now,  I know very little , but i do know myself.

[Sammiejane]

hi jaz

have you ever taking testosterone ?

how has your hair been on estrogen alone without progesterone

i've been in estrogel 2 pumps and my blood levels vary from 195 to 104 the 368 the 113 pmol

most symtoms relieved but energy libido and mood

plus the weight gain i thought estrogen supposed to do the opposite x

i've stopped the estrogel for 4 weeks due to hair shedding but symtoms are returning but unsure to go back on gel or try patch and whether to add in P or T too as to help hair shedding and weight gain energy libido like you i've had hysterectomy and ovaries removed so maybe u needed more estrogen but hard tolerating it unopposed for me x