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[ElkWarning]

Hi

Starting from April this year > At an annual health check it was discovered I had very high blood pressure, I could get to 220/120.  Immediately put on Ramipril 2mg, then upped to 5mg, GPs diagnosis was workplace stress (I think that's a contributory factor but not the whole story).  Anyway, BP came down to about 145/95.  Ramipril upped to 10mg at which point the irritating cough I'd experienced for a short while at 2mg and 5mg returned with vengeance.  Ramipril reduced to 5mg and Amlodipine 5mg introduced.  Cough got worse, I called it my frothy coughy.  Because we couldn't work out which medication was causing the issue, and it can be a side effect with both, Amlodipine withdraw for two weeks, so just the Ramipril 5mg, then this was swapped round and the Ramipril was withdrawn for three weeks, so just the Amlodipine 5mg.  When I was only on the Ramipril the cough is irritating and dry, while when only on the Amlodipine the cough is irritating and wet.  The day time coughing isn't really a problem.  I might have a couple of bursts.  It's the night time coughing, 3am, every night, then 5am.  Wakes me up, then I need a wee, then I can't get back to sleep, blah blah.  The short story is that I haven't had an uninterrupted night's sleep in about two months and I'm now finding myself sometimes having to sleep in a different bed on a different floor to hubs, which isn't great.

Reason for posting:  I'm going back to the nurse on Monday to discuss.  She's really good and I do have continuity of care with her.  I wondered what other medications people have successfully used?  I can't take beta blockers because I'm asthmatic - actually, I could, they'd just have to admit me to hospital and monitor closely for initial doses.

I've heard of ARBs, does anyone have any experience of taking those?

Also thiazide diuretics?

And renin inhibitors?

Obviously, I'd really like to get this sorted soon, and hit the magic 130 / 80 (I'm still miles off) as this has been dragging on for over four months now.  I've made lifestyle changes, do exercise my heart, and apart from the blood pressure and asthma since birth am fairly fit.

Couple more questions:  My resting heart rate on Amlopidine is higher (like 10 beats per minute) than before I started taking any medication at all.  That just doesn't seem right to me.  Also, re: heart rate, since being on the Amlopidine I've noticed that it spikes significantly higher.  So, for example, rushing 0.5 of a mile up a steep hill carrying a rucksack to the train station when I was late = 144 bpm (no Amlopidine), whereas half that same hill at a leisurely stroll = 177 bpm (Amlopidine).

Anyway, all thoughts gratefully received.  I have health anxiety so it's quite difficult for me to think my way through this.

Best

EK

[CLKD]

What is causing the high blood pressure?  Have you been referred appropriately? 

How long would you need hospital admission if BBs were the 'better' option?  Days, weeks, months with regular observation ?  How much would that impact on your daily routine?

This reference to a cough rings a bell with me, I will be raising my own thread [if I remember  ] but I have never considered the 20mg BB to be part of the cause 

Make a list to take?  Let us know!

[ElkWarning]

Hey CLKD, thanks for the reply

They don't know what's causing the high blood pressure.  It was fine in July 2018, and August 2018, in October 2018 it was on the top of end of normal, but still OK.  It was picked up when I went for my annual health check (which I've been doing for years) in April 2019.  I started HRT in July 2018, and that could have contributed?  I was taken off HRT in April, until my BP is under control.  The workplace stress thing, yeah, things went sort of pear shaped from October last year.  I have two clerical assistants, to assist me, and one of them went completely rogue, did some really weird stuff (e.g changed their GP's practice to my GP's practice, even though it's not near where they live, and repeatedly went to see my nurse to bitch about me and would then come into work and tell me how the nurse thought I was a toxic person ... They also liked to make up stories about me and gossip with colleagues, so told someone I'd left work and gone to HR to report bullying, when in fact I had the afternoon off to pick up my granddaughter and didn't think I was being bullied ... This individual also hunted me down on the internet, found my blog, written under a different name that they were unaware of - it runs off my husband's site and so they must have searched him and figured out the writer was me - and then circulated what's, essentially, my personal thoughts and feelings).  Yeah.  It was really stressful.  I line managed this person and so, obviously, was in a really difficult position.  Eventually, because they couldn't make any headway with trying to, I don't know, collapse my mental health it seemed like, they got themselves signed off sick.  I'd already started the disciplinary process, as they weren't actually doing their job either, and they ended up getting sacked.  Bet you wished you hadn't asked now.  It was a really rubbish time, made loads worse because my workload just span out of control.  I've since recruited a new clerical assistant, who starts at the beginning of October, and so, hopefully, this annus horribilis will be over soon.

^^ That's why the doc thinks it's workplace stress, because I told them all of the above, and then some, at the 'I think I'm going to break' appointment.

I've had a few procedures in the last five years or so, two colonoscopies, two gynae under GA, and my BP at clinics before and after was always fine.  I don't understand it either if I'm honest.  I managed to bring up three kids, one of whom has very volatile epilepsy, with no BP problems.  When he moved into independent living, which was a big step, no BP issues.  I was a smoker, BP all good, gave up, BP happily where it should be, a couple of years later and it's screwed.  Now it may be that things have caught up with me, but with the exception of work, I'm actually at the most relaxed phase of my life.  I don't entirely get it either. 

In terms of the hospital admission, a few days.  They'd start me off on BB and monitor.  They basically don't do this, as there are other options, but I'm vaguely interested due to the fact that I can't take BBs for anxiety either for the same reason and I think I'd quite like to explore the possibility of Propranalol - it's a super effective drug.

Re: the cough, I don't think that's another effect of BBs.  I've looked into it and it seems to be related to post nasal drip.  Potentially, your's might be too, but I don't know the context.  I'll look out for your thread.

The list, you're completely right, thanks for the reminder.

[Kathleen]

Hello ElkWarning

I'm sorry that you've had problems recently and I can understand your concern about your BP.

I am not medically qualified in any way and I promised myself that I would stop banging on about the effects of diets because I must be boring people by now. However I thought I'd mention that a whole food plant based diet has been shown to lower BP. The studies suggest that this results from excluding animal fat from the diet.

 I wonder if you have changed what you eat lately and perhaps this has contributed to your raised BP.  Incidentally even plant oils can clog our arteries which is why whole foods are emphasised and all processed foods excluded. People who eat this way (I'm one of them, as if you haven't guessed lol ) have a lower BP of about 110/70. At a recent health check mine was 95/62 but was told it's not a problem because I never feel faint.

Sorry to go on but you might want to consider diet as a factor and try tweaking a few things to see if that does the trick.

Wishing you well.

K.

[CLKD]

Criky that person was probably narsacisstic at the very least  .......... you need a 

Post nasal drip may be one contribution, hadn't thought of that 

[ElkWarning]

Hiya

About the diet, I think that's a very relevant point. My husband took over all the cooking five years ago and for the last three years we've eaten mainly a plant based diet, partly because we have a productive allotment and partly because our daughter is a vegan. The only animal fats I eat are either from the meat my husband gets from a local organic farm or when I have a meal out. In other words, I'm mostly vegan, and feel so much better for it. It does make a huge difference, so it's a point well made.

I don't think he was a narcissist, I think he was, and still is, really ill and probably quite dangerous.

X

[Kathleen]

Hello again ladies

ElkWarning - if you rarely eat meat  you won't be consuming lots of animal fat, the other sources being  dairy and eggs but I'm sure you know all this.  Plus if you eat whole foods then you are also getting enough fibre to carry away unwanted cholesterol etc.   It's so weird that your BP has suddenly taken an upward turn. I hope you get to the bottom of it and If you do please let us know.

Wishing you well.

K.

[ElkWarning]

Aye, Kathleen.  I don't really bother with dairy, occasional bits of cheese, but I'm lactose intolerant and most of the usual dairy products we have, like marg, are vegan.  I do eat eggs (from some orchard farm near here), but maybe about 4 - 5 week.

I think it's the sudden turn, as that's usually associated with stress, which makes the doc think it's workplace induced.  I passed all the blood tests (had to go twice so they could draw enough) with flying colours, so yeah, I don't know.

Ta muchly.

EK

[Kathleen]

Hello again ElkWarning

Sorry about this, I'm not stalking you honest lol. However your last post reminded me that when a colleague had high BP after a stressful time they were able to bring it down by giving up coffee, cigarettes and losing weight.  I am sure non of this applies to you but I thought it was worth a mention.

Take care.

K.

[Sparrow]

Just checking.  Was this just one test they did.  They should ask you to self monitor over several weeks to get an accurate picture.

Unfortunately meds do lower blood pressure but not the death rate of stroke and heart attacks.  It's a bit of a red herring.

[ElkWarning]

Hiya

I don't smoke anymore, but yeah, went from stupid amounts of coffee (3 - 4 a day) to maybe 1 - 2 a week. About the weight, I am overweight, was just a touch off 12 stone, 11.5 four months later, about an inch and a half off my waist. It doesn't seem much, but I've been doing resistance exercises and am quite surprised to find I have baby muscles now. It's going in the right direction.

Re: mortality, I thought the whole point of treating BP was because of its links with stroke and heart attack??? Maybe it lowering BP doesn't stop you dying if you have one, instead the aim is to prevent you having one in the first place, but I don't know.

[Sparrow]

They reduce the number of non fatal episodes but not fatal ones.  There lots of links with the stats but can't post them on my phone.  Will do so tomorrow.

Another anolomy is that there is a significant minority of deaths in people with no risk factors.

Nothing is as simple as it seems.

[ElkWarning]

This is true...

Also BP measured in week long periods, morning and evening, then an average worked out. Done 3 lots of these so far, Nd and handing in another one tomorrow.

[CLKD]

DH took his BP every morning at 7.30 B4 eating.  After 3 months handed the results to our GP. All well.  Now me: I don't register on his machine, apparently I'm dead  . 

[Sparrow]

As promised some links on blood pressure.  I'm not saying they are all 100% correct but it's a good starting point for research.  Dr. Kendrick is the one I trust the most.  His second article  is particularly interesting.


https://www.cochrane.org/CD011745/HTN_drugs-used-lower-blood-pressure-do-not-reduce-sudden-death

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-hypertension-mortality-idUSKBN1DE2Q5

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/'s=blood+pressure+