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[Alicess]

Hi Hurdity,

I would really like to know if patches have a better absorption then Oestrogel. I went up to 8 pumps and still my symptoms got worse and even adding more symptoms.No difference what so ever when I increased dosage.  I've also tried patches and went up to 400 mg (4x100 patches) I only felt a little relief a few days around ovulation then things got worse again. Maybe some women need more because FSH is to low?
I also wonder if ethinylestradiol, which is also a oral estrogen, would be mainly converted to estrone too?

Alicess X

[Sammiejane]

Hi everyone

Can someone answer a question for me which is does estrogel cause thinning scalp hair ?

Some websites say it does other say it dosent some say the frequency is unknown and others say at least 1 percent of people taking it , it does and then the leaflet dosent mention hairloss ?

[Kathleen]

Hello again ladies.

Hurdity -  many thanks for your interesting response.  I have some favourite  science sites that I go to and though I'm fascinated by the information I despair at the complexity!

BeaR -  When I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease I began doing a lot of research. One site referred to all users as ' citizen scientists' because although not trained, we had the tenacity and motivation to examine every aspect of our condition. Who knows where the next big idea will come from?

Many thanks for your efforts ladies and I wish you well.

K

[bear]

Hello Kathleen,

Brilliant, thank you.  Tenacity and motivation. When we or our loved ones are suffering terribly and common medical care cannot help us, it's up to us to become 'citizen scientists'. I love people who are always having ideas, thinking is our gift isn't it?

BeaR.

[Hurdity]

Hi Hurdity,

I would really like to know if patches have a better absorption then Oestrogel. I went up to 8 pumps and still my symptoms got worse and even adding more symptoms.No difference what so ever when I increased dosage.  I've also tried patches and went up to 400 mg (4x100 patches) I only felt a little relief a few days around ovulation then things got worse again. Maybe some women need more because FSH is to low?
I also wonder if ethinylestradiol, which is also a oral estrogen, would be mainly converted to estrone too?

Alicess X

This is a bit off Kathleen's topic about the different types of oestrogen and estrone but the answer to your question is how long is a piece of string?! It is really a question of how your body absorbs estradiol best from the different modes of delivery. The dosage is always given as eg low medium and high and based on a group of individual women whose serum levels are measured over a period of time and then an average arrived at. The doses are set based on these averages - and that has led to the approx equivalents which are always quoted. These approx equivalents provide a good starting point but you may not achieve the level given by the dose.  There is a huge variation between how much of the estradiol from a given dose is absorbed into the bloodstream and within a particular individual - how much she will absorb from patches vs gel or tablets.

Ostensibly - 6 pumps is a very high dose (although it probably wouldn't be if you had experienced surgical menopause). Also 400 mcg is a very high dose. Have you ever had serum estradiol levels measured and where are you in menopause, do you have a womb/ovaries etc? Estradiol suppresses FSH so not this does not mean you need more oestrogen! There is a condition resulting from supra-physiological levels of estradiol (or some drugs) known as tachyphylaxis (might be spelt wrongly!) so that higher doses have a reverse effect. Also very high doses of oestrogen normally suppress ovulation so if this is not happening for you then maybe you're not absorbing it?

I hadn't ever looked into ethinylestradiol which I understood to be a stronger synthetic oestrogen used in many BCPs - it is much stronger than estradiol and as far as I can make out from my fave reference about this - it is not converted to estrone.

Maybe start a new thread about your circumstances?

Hurdity x

[Alicess]

Thank you, Hurdity, for your explanation. I do admire you! BeaR mentioned  only 10% of Oestrogel is being absorbed  so I was hoping there could be research about absorption in general for patches or comparing the two. But you are right, of course, its different for everyone. I'm still on BCP's, I have to, it prevents me from having cluster headache. It's a long story and  I hesitate to write it down because then it seems to become more real and it makes me feel sad. So many shattered dreams. But I do need the knowledge from all the ladies on this forum so I hope I will find the courage soon.

Alicess 🌷

[Hurdity]

Just to clarify Alicess - the dose of each type ( patch, gel, tablet) is set to take into account how much is absorbed into the bloodstream of each on average - so really it doesn't matter that only approx 10 % is absorbed (I think some estimates are variable anyway) - it's not an important point - because that is what it's meant to do if you see what I mean? And like I said - it may well be different for you.

Hurdity x

[Alicess]

Yes, I see what you mean. Didn't realize. Thank you for pointing it out.

[Sammiejane]

Alicess

You say you are on bcp can I ask what that is.  ?

Thanks

Are you in menopause ?

[Alicess]

Hi Sammiejane, I'm on Femodene but I have severe hairloss as the estrogen in it doesn't seem to work. I also have many other peri/menopausal sympthoms. I don't think BCP''s are the solution for you. Progestins can cause hairloss too in some women. I It's probably low estrogen and/or low testosterone that's causing your hairloss. Did you try upping your Oestrogel? Do you know your testosterone level and SHBG?

[Sammiejane]

Hi alicess

Yes my estrogen on 2 pumps of the gel was 195 back in march then 104 in June

Testosterone was 0.8 in March then 0.6 in June this year

My meno said I'm not obsorbing it well so don't know whether to go up to 2.5 or 3 pumps or change to estradot patch,

In my 20s I was on the combined pill microgynon 30 and never suffered hairloss so was thinking of going back on them cause I had hairloss on HRT so far and when I had low estrogen prior to taking HRT I never had hairloss which is why I was wondering if it was imbalance between estrogen and progesterone ?

[Alicess]

Microgynon is a more androgenic pill and and it made my shedding less. Gestodene, the progestin in Femodene has a high progestogenic and weak androgenic activity and it made my hairloss much worse so I would not recommend taking progesterone. You could increase your Estrogel as you're already on it. When your level is sufficient you could ask your GP or specialist for testosterone. I understand you want a quick fix but I don't believe progesterone is the answer.
Your hormonal system has changed a lot from when you where in your twenties. What worked well then doesn't have to work now. Microgynon 30 did wonders for me a few years ago but now it has the opposite effect.

[Alicess]

Something went wrong, wasn't finished yet. If I remember correctly you've had a hysterectomy? I'm personally not against BCP''S for menopause but if
you don't need progesterone or progestins I would stay clear of them as they can have a lot of side-effects.

[Sammiejane]

Hi alicess

I was only wanting to add progesterone for hairloss and to balance out the effects of estrogen which my meno said I can try but utrogestan 100mg every night.

I feel rubbish on estrogen only I cannot function !
And have been suffering 9 months now

[Alicess]

Sammiejane, I think you need to increase your estrogel. If you feel rubish on it it doesn't necessarily mean it's the estrogel. You probably need more pumps. Urtrogestan will probably make it worse as it increases SHBG thus lowering testosterone. I think you should discuss this with your specialist.