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[orrla]

Hello Sickntired!

...like you nick

I sympathise with you, I know what and how you feel!

The point in talking about Meno widely is for deciding bodies to finally do something about it, issue policies, provoke change in attitudes.

If all pretend that nothing happens, and Black Cohosh is enough, no one will invest any monies in complicated research and development of appropriate medication that would help women continue with lifestyles they chose, or must be in like you and me ..

After that scare in 2003 women stoped complaining to their GPs in search for medication. The effect was that GPs did not educate themselves enough!

The more of us complain the more pressure will be on deciding bodies to do something constructive about it!!!!

[orrla]

Yes Birdy!

And why is this?!!!

Perhaps, because no one noticed that she needs more than fan and Black Cohosh, because of so many claims that as it is a natural stage of life, women need to just get on with it..?!

[Hurdity]

Thanks, Callisto!

Meno and Work is only mentioned recently, since that Meno week BBC 4 Women's Hour did two years ago...

It needs to be talked about, for, completely different are experiences of housewife living with high earner loving husband and that of single women earning for her living. 

I wish women themselves understood this! ... and stop telling me that they sailed through it.. and Black Cohosh helped them!

Even if my vagina was dry this would be my least concern.

My pension was greatest!

Here we go again 

There are many women who CAN'T or just don't want to take HRT.  Please don't criticise them for using Alternatives.

I was once told on this very forum that 'you can't possibly have suffered or you would have used HRT'

Well excuse me nobody has the right to judge others meno journey. 

..where exactly did you see a judgement?

Mocking use of Alternatives. That's not no.

I have not detected any mocking whatsoever! Orrla is making good points about the way women are treated and also about the attitudes of some women who have chosen not to take hRT because they do not experience debilitating symptoms, seeing women who do so as weak.

I for one am actually pleased I did have severe symptoms that prevneted me functioning normally because I then "resorted" to HRT after "failing" with Black Cohosh (which I took for some time) and phyto-oestrogen diet - and at least now I have had a number of years of protection especially against osteoporosis which is in my family.

Hurdity x

[Sparrow]

Thanks, Callisto!

Meno and Work is only mentioned recently, since that Meno week BBC 4 Women's Hour did two years ago...

It needs to be talked about, for, completely different are experiences of housewife living with high earner loving husband and that of single women earning for her living. 

I wish women themselves understood this! ... and stop telling me that they sailed through it.. and Black Cohosh helped them!

Even if my vagina was dry this would be my least concern.

My pension was greatest!

Here we go again 

There are many women who CAN'T or just don't want to take HRT.  Please don't criticise them for using Alternatives.

I was once told on this very forum that 'you can't possibly have suffered or you would have used HRT'

Well excuse me nobody has the right to judge others meno journey. 

..where exactly did you see a judgement?

Mocking use of Alternatives. That's not no.

I have not detected any mocking whatsoever! Orrla is making good points about the way women are treated and also about the attitudes of some women who have chosen not to take hRT because they do not experience debilitating symptoms, seeing women who do so as weak.

I for one am actually pleased I did have severe symptoms that prevneted me functioning normally because I then "resorted" to HRT after "failing" with Black Cohosh (which I took for some time) and phyto-oestrogen diet - and at least now I have had a number of years of protection especially against osteoporosis which is in my family.

Hurdity x

Well I certainly did detect Mocking and I stand by it.  And how do you know what women have experienced that don't take HRT, the assumption that they can't have had a bad meno is insulting and astonishing.

This forum is not just for women on HRT.

Or is it??

[Hurdity]

Havnt time to read all of this as at work, min wage, heavy lifting,  long hours on my feet.  Depression in the morning if i dont run, harder if i do, as tired quicker.  Like a zombie at night unless i rely on a cocktail of vit B,  ginseng and co enzyme q10.  All in a day.  Stopped hrt yesterday thanks to all the press.  Was told originally it was safe after years of it being incorrectly being viewed as unsafe. Now its unsafe again.  All the people i know who have had cancer , have died. I have no option but to stop , although both female realtives had heart conditions.  Would be as well playing Russia roulette.   Think all the talk of "lets talk about menopause" is lipservice. It always involves employers being told i need rest rooms and fans etc.  A fat lot of use on a long shift when fatigue is your biggest problem. Yes i agree with one comment , its all about bloody vaginal dryness. Who cares, some of us have to work to 67 in limited jobs because we cant think well enough with un effective medication,  to be able to even get training or study (anymore). No wonder we are depressed,  its a vicious cycle.  And what do they hand you? A little card to find Menopause matters website where "all your questions will be answered " because as a doctor, i havnt the time/energy/enthusiasm or knowledge to answer. So all go chat n cry n moan to each other which helps none of us  ut at least youre all in one place where youre seen and not heard til its time to go to work.   Yes im pissed off.  Ive written on this column because i wanted to truly express my empathy to the originator of this discussion (and others who echo it)  im sorry but its way more than hot flushes and much needs to be changed in the wzy its being "talked about" 😡

So sorry to read you feel like this and I know you have no time to read the thread and all the responses by eminent scientists and gynaecologists to the sensational press headline yesterday - but this latest research does not mean you have to give up HRT. It is all sensationalised and no further causal relationship between HRT and breast cancer has been established. The research just reanalysed a whole lot of data and lumped it together with a very complicated statistical analysis to come up with some figures about risk.

The general consensus is that the possible increased risk of breast cancer from HRT varies according to the type of HRT - with transdermal (through thr skin) bio-identical hormones (estradiol and progesterone - as widely available from GP) being safer than synthetic alternatives. Also that lifestyle measures can carry gretaer risk ie being fat, (fatter than optimal), unfit and drinking too much so having a good diet full of fresh ingredients, reducing alcohol, taking exercise, maintaining or achieving healthy BMI, will mean you minimise your cancer risk from these, even if you have a marginally increased risk from taking HRT. The absolute risk in any case is small.

Also that there are many health benefits from HRT which can protect you from many other conditions and also some cancers so it is a balance between risks and benefits that need to be considered.

Please do not give up your HRT in a hurry. If you have certain risk factors eg re heart disease ( do you?) these can be mitigated through lifestyle measures and the type of HRT.

Heavens we can all do without this (press headlines) at a time when we are living 30-40 years beyond menopause if we're lucky!

Hurdity x

[Hurdity]

Note I used the word "some" - and I know this because of many accounts I have read in the press and on various forums over the years including this one.

Hurdity x

[Hurdity]

I didn't see any mocking either! Can we please not bloody well fall out.

Quite so Birdy !!!

Hurdity x

[orrla]

Shadyglade, don't take it personally! This is about a big picture, not you!

[CLKD]

So anyone:

If a lady stops HRT for what ever reasons, why does she very often have dreadful symptoms: for which she took the product in the first instance?  Often within a matter of days, those symptoms return.  So how does anyone reach the conclusion that cancer risks remains for X, Y, Z years after stopping it? 

Does this mean that during our productive lives, women are at high risk of cancer developing due to our own hormones?  Mine lump was found to have changes at the margins and apparently oestrogen caused.  But how many women do not develop cancer through their productive lives  .  All this topic has caused 4 me is more confusion  . 

I would have to deep think as to where I was in relation to my cycles and what age I was when I had surgery.  Too tired right now 

Not one of my surgical team has contacted me over the years to see how I've fared once I reached menopause ........ I was never asked to let the surgeonor or oncologist know so there's a whole raft of patients out there that are never talked to  . no joined up thinking?  Again!

[Butterfly22]

I do think there has been a lot of pressure with menopause atm. Weather you can't get what you need or we should not be talking it ect.
I've always seen things if someone has something that bothers them it's a problem no matter how small compared to your own problems.
And at times like this we all need to support one another. 😘

[anais]

The reason why I take HRT is because I was diagnosed with osteoporosis at the age of 53. The problem I have with media articles on the menopause and HRT is this emphasis on hot flushes and vague mood swings, as if that's all the menopause is. Other than a passing comment on osteoporosis risks in the last paragraphs of these press articles, I haven't seen anything about the risks of fractures and falls and the associated mortality risks of osteoporosis. I wouldn't have even known I had osteoporosis had I not had a DEXA scan and those are not given routinely.

For the individual, it's all about the relative risks. I have to weigh up the risks of HRT against the risks associated with osteoporosis first and foremost. Other people have other risks to weigh up. Also, there's no such thing as zero risk for anything. It's not as if we can stop HRT and become risk free. Besides we should all be having our weight and BP measured at our HRT review appointments, and keeping up with our NHS health checks and screening appointments. We all know that we need to be sensible about alcohol consumption. When we are prescribed HRT we are informed of the risks. We make an informed decision. My decision was about protecting my bones. There's no right or wrong. We do what we feel is right for us.

[Sparrow]

The reason why I take HRT is because I was diagnosed with osteoporosis at the age of 53. The problem I have with media articles on the menopause and HRT is this emphasis on hot flushes and vague mood swings, as if that's all the menopause is. Other than a passing comment on osteoporosis risks in the last paragraphs of these press articles, I haven't seen anything about the risks of fractures and falls and the associated mortality risks of osteoporosis. I wouldn't have even known I had osteoporosis had I not had a DEXA scan and those are not given routinely.

For the individual, it's all about the relative risks. I have to weigh up the risks of HRT against the risks associated with osteoporosis first and foremost. Other people have other risks to weigh up. Also, there's no such thing as zero risk for anything. It's not as if we can stop HRT and become risk free. Besides we should all be having our weight and BP measured at our HRT review appointments, and keeping up with our NHS health checks and screening appointments. We all know that we need to be sensible about alcohol consumption. When we are prescribed HRT we are informed of the risks. We make an informed decision. My decision was about protecting my bones. There's no right or wrong. We do what we feel is right for us.

Exactly anais.  I agree with you 100%.

[Jari]

Good point CLKD. I think quite likely there are some of us who's own hormones cause BC. The majority of BC's are estrogen receptive. My family history is exactly that, so, already at a higher risk, it would not be right to add to that risk with hrt, as far as I believe and from what my gp has said.
I think it's really important for each individual woman to read the risks on the small print of whichever hrt they are taking. Whatever is listed is there for a reason, even if the ‘specialists' tend to brush that off or maybe don't even bring them up.

It's also true regarding weight and alcohol. I think we all need to try our best to be in the middle of our own bmi recommended number and not to drink more than the recommended 14 units of alcohol per week.

I've noticed that when I'm lighter in weight, my flushes/sweats are much reduced.

I also really feel, from reading many posts on here, that many women feel scared to come off their hrt, but I'm wondering if they have tried, because it's important to also remember that everyone is different and symptoms may well have passed for some and therefore no need to take it anymore.

I had a bone scan recently as I do not take hrt, so wanted to check my bone health. I will have one every two years to stay on top of potential osteopenia. X

[CLKD]

Have you had the bone scan result?

[Jari]

No I haven't had the result yet, they said two weeks, which will be Monday, so I will call my gp on Monday. I'm very interested to know what my level is as I don't take hrt. X