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[Harmony]

Hello ladies
I have just joined the forum, and am finding it very helpful; also I feel less alone with my struggles.
Question as in title, but I'll give a bit of background info. I'm 54, 2 years post menopause and I've had ME/CFS for 23 years, and am sure the menopause has exacerbated my worst symptoms of physical and mental fatigue/exhaustion, poor memory and concentration, depression and brain fog. So many of the symptoms of ME and menopause overlap, so it's a double whammy. I was hoping that the HRT might just give me a bit of a boost - a bit more energy,  improved mood, and more of a feeling of wellbeing. I'm single and live alone, and I'm dragging myself through every day. I feel like I'm just existing, I get little pleasure from life and being asleep is the best part of the day. It's as if everything good including patience, happiness and hope has been sucked out of me. I really feel as if I've had enough of life, and struggling physically, mentally and emotionally for so long.

Perhaps I'm expecting too much, but I was hoping to have felt some improvement by now. The only difference has been that the hot flushes have stopped, but they were the least of it - mild and only a couple of times a day. I'm using 2 pumps of gel, and 100mg utrogestan. I'm wondering whether to up the gel to 3 pumps a day, or if I need to give it a bit longer at 2 pumps. Thanks in advance. 🙂

[coldlittleheart]

Hi Harmony, I can't comment on the estrogen dosage as I am not entirely sure what I am doing myself and I am struggling. I am in a very similar situation as you, I have FMS and just when you think things are bad enough as they were, comes menopause. And it seems to hit hard. I can relate entirely with how you feel in the sense that you feel like you're just existing, It's really hard to deal with. Just wanted to tell you you're not alone feeling like this. Does you GP practice not have "ask my GP" service on their website where you log in and message what your problem is and ask for someone to contact you back. Mine has that option it can be really helpful, especially for things like tweaking dosage.

I am sure that someone will come along and have an answer for you on here, I am on oral estrogen, so I can't adjust that. Hope something comes up x

[Hurdity]

Hi Harmony

 

Sorry to hear about your ongoing symptoms.

I presume you are taking the utrogestan daily, and orally? If so then this could be why you are still not feeling as well as you could. Progesterone has a sedative effect and if you have a fatigue condition then this could well make it worse.

I know you are post-menopause but you could try taking the progesterone cyclically ie 200 mg on 12 days per month (calendar month is fine) and see how you get on, You would get a withdrawal bleed and you might feel rough just after you stop the prog ( or even during it) but after your bleed you will have a while on oestrogen only and then you can really tell how the oestrogen is making you feel. Personally I would do this before increasing the dose to 3 pumps - since your flushes have stopped it means it is working to some extent.

Have you had your thyroid tested? This can cause and/or exacerbate fatigue conditions like CFS/ME. Also low testosterone can do the same. If you have low libido and have unaccustomed muscle pain after exercise, as well as lacking in any oomph or zest for life, then low T could also be the cause. Difficult to get this on NHS though.

However, another possibility is the tablet Livial for post-menopause which might be worth a try. It's a bit different from normal HRT and might give you the boost you need? It has "...weak estrogenic, progestogenic & androgenic properties" so a comnbination of all three hormones, and maybe not quite the sedative/depressive effect of progesterone?

In addition to reviewing your HRT, can you make a list of things to do which will help lift you out of this and give you something positive to look forward to. Just one thing per day that makes you feel positive? What do you enjoy doing? Hobbies and interests? Voluntary work. Do you have a job? How is your weight? Exercise? Diet? Can you meet a friend for coffee? make that list and hlep yourself to feeling happier one small step at a time.

Do keep posting and let us know how you are and hope to see an improvement soon.

Hurdity x

[Harmony]

Thanks for your reply clh. I'm sorry that you've got FMS, these are such awful conditions, but it's helps to know that you understand. 🙂 My surgery unfortunately doesn't have that facility on their website, but it sounds a great idea. It's usually a 6 week wait for a non urgent appointment at my surgery, but I struck lucky and "only" had to wait 4 1/2 weeks for the appointment to get HRT! The gp I saw was lovely, I told her what I wanted to try and she was very helpful and happy to prescribe it, but obviously had limited knowledge of HRT. She's since left, sadly. Going by that appointment and what I've read on here, gp's aren't a great help, so we have to turn to forums etc to ask for help from experienced users.

How have you got on with your oral oestrogen? Have you noticed any benefits? I hope you get some improvement, it's so hard dealing with menopause as well as these horrible conditions.😢

[Harmony]

[quote author=Birdy
All you can do is experiment. it's ultimately what we all have to do. Try upping your dose for two weeks. I tend to do it half a pump at a time.

Thanks for your reply Birdy. I did wonder about trying an extra half a pump. I just wanted to give it enough time to kick in before making any adjustments. Friends who've taken HRT said they felt a lot better generally within days of taking it, so if I was going to notice a difference I suppose I would have done by now. I'm quite envious that they improved so quickly!

[Harmony]

Hi Harmony

 

Sorry to hear about your ongoing symptoms.

I presume you are taking the utrogestan daily, and orally? If so then this could be why you are still not feeling as well as you could. Progesterone has a sedative effect and if you have a fatigue condition then this could well make it worse.

I know you are post-menopause but you could try taking the progesterone cyclically ie 200 mg on 12 days per month (calendar month is fine) and see how you get on, You would get a withdrawal bleed and you might feel rough just after you stop the prog ( or even during it) but after your bleed you will have a while on oestrogen only and then you can really tell how the oestrogen is making you feel. Personally I would do this before increasing the dose to 3 pumps - since your flushes have stopped it means it is working to some extent.

Have you had your thyroid tested? This can cause and/or exacerbate fatigue conditions like CFS/ME. Also low testosterone can do the same. If you have low libido and have unaccustomed muscle pain after exercise, as well as lacking in any oomph or zest for life, then low T could also be the cause. Difficult to get this on NHS though.

However, another possibility is the tablet Livial for post-menopause which might be worth a try. It's a bit different from normal HRT and might give you the boost you need? It has "...weak estrogenic, progestogenic & androgenic properties" so a comnbination of all three hormones, and maybe not quite the sedative/depressive effect of progesterone?

In addition to reviewing your HRT, can you make a list of things to do which will help lift you out of this and give you something positive to look forward to. Just one thing per day that makes you feel positive? What do you enjoy doing? Hobbies and interests? Voluntary work. Do you have a job? How is your weight? Exercise? Diet? Can you meet a friend for coffee? make that list and hlep yourself to feeling happier one small step at a time.

Do keep posting and let us know how you are and hope to see an improvement soon.

Hurdity x

Thank you so much for your very helpful and detailed reply, Hurdity. I really appreciate it. I can't answer it at the moment as my brain can't cope with any more thinking/typing, but I'll reply another time. x

[onion relish]

Hi Harmony,

I can't help much except to say upping my dose did help. I'm on 3, thinking of going to 4 a day. Menopause definitely made my conditions worse, though.

I feel your pain. I have Fibromyalgia and TM (bit like MS) and the very worst for me has been how absolutely fatigued I've been. I have zero energy to do stuff I like let alone stuff I just need to do.

I suffered anxiety and depression and that's bad - if you don't have your mental health you don't want to do anything and couldn't care less about stuff that needs doing (unless, like me, you suffer the guilt of not doing). But when you WANT to do things but then find even getting dressed to do it too much, well that just leads back to depression.

I really hope going up a bit helps you.

[coldlittleheart]

Thanks for your reply clh. I'm sorry that you've got FMS, these are such awful conditions, but it's helps to know that you understand. 🙂 My surgery unfortunately doesn't have that facility on their website, but it sounds a great idea. It's usually a 6 week wait for a non urgent appointment at my surgery, but I struck lucky and "only" had to wait 4 1/2 weeks for the appointment to get HRT! The gp I saw was lovely, I told her what I wanted to try and she was very helpful and happy to prescribe it, but obviously had limited knowledge of HRT. She's since left, sadly. Going by that appointment and what I've read on here, gp's aren't a great help, so we have to turn to forums etc to ask for help from experienced users.

I think that system works well, I messaged this morning explaining how it's not working and how awful I feel and within an hour, my GP had replied, said I'm sorry to hear, and that she'd ring me this afternoon. It is really bad that you have to wait so long. Do they not do "ring at 8.30 and get an appointment same day" type thing?

How have you got on with your oral oestrogen? Have you noticed any benefits? I hope you get some improvement, it's so hard dealing with menopause as well as these horrible conditions.😢

I am not sure how the oral oestrogen is working out for me. I am not sure which part of the combo is not working, at the moment I am feeling really exhausted, more than usual, achy, tearful, down in general and nauseous all the time. I saw some benefits after a couple of weeks, it went fine I thought wow, no side effects. Then it hit me like a ton of bricks last week. A few nights with broken sleep and it was all over. Seems like different types of hormones are so different in how they work for each person, I just hope we both find something that helps us. Hopefully you will be able to get an appointment sooner rather than later. It's also a shame when you see a doctor you like and who is sympathetic and want to help, then you want to see them again and they're gone. Been there so many times. Take care!