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[juliemargaret]

Hi all....little update. Im.now day 6 of no utrogestan. (Stopped alternate day after 4 months due to bleeds but more so not felt right - tired drained foggy low - plan is to try a sequi)
Been okay.....calm and moods just ok but had headache most days upon waking and at times felt a teeny nausea. Appetite not great. Today havent felt too good...more like have a cold, heavy eyed and headed and headache, although not extremely bad, is not shifting...donthsve a cold neither.  Feel a bit sick. Not much go in me although had plans and things to do...just felt off..and had to go sleep for a bit this afternoon. Boobs still tender..especially left one.definte changes in tissue.as feel harder than norm...used to get now and again so not too worried and knownjust hormones. No bleeds since stopped utro. Still using my estrogel 2 and a bit pumps - for now until end month then try a sequi and add the urltro again.
My question -.is it normal to feel the above maybe when stopping utrogestan? A withdrawal perhaps? And am i ure to have a bleed or does this not always happen? Or would that be out my system now....and could it be the estrogen not agreeing? Im debating just stopping the gel too...in the hope i just feel myself again (whatever that was!) but worried ill miss a good chance that i can and will benefit etc!

Any thoughts or chat  be welcomed.x

[Ladybt28]

You can get progesterone withdrawal Jmargret and feel a bit weird.  You may very well not get any bleeding because you have been bleeding a lot anyway and your womb lining will be thin so I wouldn't worry about that bit.  You are just going to have to be patient for a bit and see how you get on with only the gel and then how you feel when you go back on the utrogestan.
You may find that you need to up your gel to control the nausea and other symptoms but wait until you have done your first set of utro on the cycle at the end of the month.  That way you will know if it is just the continuous progesterone subsiding causing the symptoms or whether you need more oestrogen to get rid of them.  xx

[juliemargaret]

Morning ladybt28
Thanks as always. Yes ill do that...although this 3 day headache and waking up again this morn feeling a little jittery, hard to explain, but a quiet inner buzzing kinda jittrers!  I was tempted to just stop the gel. Finito. And hope for feeling somewhat 'normalish' .....as not sure felt this way before hrt. Respect may just be the prog withd....but then wondered if maybe the estrogen not suiting me! Its scaring me a little ladybird....sorry i started. Ill just try forget abt it and see what happens. Dont suppose there is a there a timescale you would say that it can take for the progesterone to be gone....few days or like a week etc? 
I did get a sinilar headaxhe when first stsrted hrt then it went..... x

[Dotty]

JMargaret...the way you are feeling may be due to low oestrogen.  It's so difficult to work out what's what I'm afraid.  You've just got to stick with it and see what happens.  I speak from experience . 

Or you could stop everything as I explained on another post and then you'll know exactly what is menopause and what is side effects.  When I saw a private consultant i was really struggling, but she said to me "whatever you do, don't stop taking the hrt because then you'll be back at square one."  She was semi correct.  The tablets I was taking didn't have enough oestrogen and it wasn't until I got onto 4 pumps of oestrogel that I began to improve.  Another doctor said to me that if I was on too weak a dose of oestrogen I wouldn't see any improvements and she was right.

You've got to do what you think is best. x

[Ladybt28]

Dotty's right jmargaret - if you stop you will be back to square one - and then if that gets really bad you will have to start all over again. Unfortunately there is loads of faffing about to get this right.  I am like dotty I use 4 pumps and the symptoms didn't go until I got to that.  There is nothing to be frightened of, I assure you, you just have to bit the bullet and play around with the number of pumps.  It is the gel that really controls the symptoms and you can do yourself no harm at all if you take it up to 4 pumps or anything between 2 and 4.  If you are still feeling rough what is to lose?

Nothing worked until I got to 4 pumps of gel and I think Dotty was the same.  Seems scary but I promise you it's not...especially when you are desperate to feel better...I was willing to try anything.  You will still use your progesterone 12 days 200mg vaginally even on anything up to 4 pumps x

[Dotty]

Ladybt... you and I seem very similar with similar stories. I agree with what you say and I was the same. I was very ill and desperate to get better but it took a lot to get better. I'm now happily on 4 pumps and doing well but it took a while even on 4 pumps. X

[Ladybt28]

I agree we are very similar - but like you it took huge amounts of patience and a long time - 3 maybe 5 years on fixing the hrt bit.  If you are having problems, you just have to keep going to find a solution because the alternative is too awful to contemplate...oh and by the sounds of it we are both a bit stubborn, to say the least 

[juliemargaret]

Hi both lovelies ladybt28 and dotty. Thank you as always for taking the time. I want to cry! Had this headaxhe now 4 days and feel like somebody is sitting on my head its that heavy. I think its the headache thts naking me feel off. I dont know! Dont know if its prog withdrawal or the estrogen. I have taken on board what you have both said as i always do bit its still hard as i still dont know what to do for the better.. im trying to listen in as im usially very in tune and  my intuition is strong BUT its not speaking to me at all at the moment. I feel at such a loss. Going on holiday on friday...havent done a thing.  Part of me whats to just stop....sod it alll....and the other sensible part is saying i will never know if dont try....

Before hrt i didnt have any sweats or owt...was just very fatigued......low...achy....tender.coccyx bone..breasts....hair shedding...been a few yrs i think but the last few mobths before hrt i just felt so.flat and lost.....overwhelmed and no motivation etc.......not so much anxiious or erractic more quietly and inwardly not feeling right....hence me trying.  Inwas this morning questioning if.i even needed it....have i stwrted somehing now that i didnt need......then i feel a quiet panic....bit then my heart reminds me that i wasnt feeling all that great and i know it
 
I will just continue with the gel....im.on 2 and a bit pumps but may increase ? But then feel a quiet fear thay themorw i have the more reliant upon k may be IF ot helps then the harder tonget off it should i need to IF the progestetone isnt good with me!!!   So ssorry for being a pain. Im.tryimg not to cry..think its my headache thats doing it!
X

[Ladybt28]

You are not a pain..you are in pain and struggling...post away...someone is always here  There is no need to fear becoming reliant as if you are somehow doing something wrong in taking hrt jmargret...its not a sing of weakness, you shouldn't feel that others are better than you because they don't take it.  If you up the pumps and you feel better then that is what your body needs.  You need to experiment to learn what works for you and what doesn't, it is the only way to find out. No doctor will be able to give you a definitive answer they can only suggest stuff to like the ladies on the forum.  I would say the ladies on the forum are probably more experienced than the doctors because they have lived through just about every scenario and are so desperate to get well they read a lot, do loads of research and ask loads of questions and they experiment.  I don't think its the progesterone withdrawal now, its the oestrogen.

I had terrible migrains, usually on my left side of my face (all my problems were hormonal for a teenager they just got worse and worse in meno) and now on 4 pumps, I don't get them except if I get really tired.  As Dotty says, you can only try...what will happen??   You will stay the same or get better...staying the same is not good and stopping will only bring back what you wanted to get rid of in the first place.  Feel confident to try upping the gel and in the meantime keep posting and then tell us how you feel in a couple of days  xx big hugs

[juliemargaret]

Thank you again ladybt28 - so much support here. Ok.....im.gonna do that..continue a bit longer and try to relax into it. I used to suffer witl LEFT eye pain for yrs....LEFT breast.....always the left!

So yes ill.carry on.......give myself time to see if feel the benwfits of just eestrogen as not had it alone have i. You said before maybe wait until after done 1.cycle before up dose.....but i was thinking.to maybe try upping it from.tomorrrow.....from 2 and a bit to maybe 3? Do you think this be ok...to bite the bullet and start upping it now?  As you said need to experiment...and be confident.
Im.not gonna.give the utro part any thought just yet.......will try relax into the gel and then wat for my bleed which i think ..or hope...will come end mobth THEN count that as day 1.of a sequi cycle and add utro 15 days after that. Im assuming be ok to do this - be a possible 4 weeks without progesterone...ooh..sorry....what happens IF i bleed anytime.soon....shall i start cojnting from then or wait till end month when i am.confident (ish 😂) my.own period will.come.

Apols again for all the questions......one thig at a time.i know...gel.alone first...but was just wondetong in case i bleed on hol so can have the plan in place !!!

Ps....one more promise.....tbis headache..any idea what it may be....could it just have been brought on by the prog withdrawal and is pannning out or could it be estro? I dont really suffer such...... x

[Ladybt28]

sorry if I confused you...up the gel now to 3 pumps and you will just go along until you need to start your utrogestan.  Start the Utrogestan for 12 days as is prescribed for a cycle.  depending on the day you stopped the continuous utorgestan, count 15 days on gel only and start the utrogestan again for 12 days. I wouldn't push it to 4 weeks with gel only right now, you need to get into a proper cycle.  I cannot say if you will bleed for the holiday...no one would be able to predict, your body is going to do what it is going to do..  Take stuff with you just in case.

I cant say about the headache either...I suffered for years and was given sinus treatment, antibiotics, mirgraine medication but nothing fixed it until I got my hrt right.  If you have not had them before then I would suggest oestrogen levels but until you try upping your oestrogen its very difficult to tell.

At the end of the day...you might have to change the type of hrt but don't even think about that now...you need to rule out what happens and doesn't happen on the one you have got before you could even contemplate changing xx

[juliemargaret]

Ahh ladybt28 - bless you. Feel a little better already....

Yes ill.do that.....SO (**drumroll and the tune of "this is me" from the greatest showman bursting out**)...

* from tomorrow im going to up gel to 3 pumps.....inner thighs as i do now -  so will just divide this between both innner thighs and rub in..will whistle as i do.for good measure 😂 (unless you suggest 2 pumps morn and 1 of eve before bed no?) and try and.forget and go.enjoy hol ..hopef.all.be well BUT how will.i know if too much? As.i already feel.real.jittery as it is today.

My last utrogestan on alternate eves vag100mg should have been.on 16th Aug...but i didnt take. So day 1 of gel only was  16th aug....so.....on 30th Aug will.be day 15. Im.gonna start the utro for 12 days and 100mg vaginally.....i know not licensed but due to vag.may be ok? Then il hopef  bleed a few.days after the 12 days...and so.forth.(what happens of i bleed before..ie..during the 12  days?...is this cause for alarm..or no..and .shall i stop the utro as part of cycle OR wait until the end of the 12 days!

Headache - i know.....hopef it just goes....and is remnants of prog leaving.(and is prob a bit of stress as been heavy on my mind - my sister has a theory im "feeding" it...all of it...focusing too much on...but im not....the tiredness headachw and jitters is real! )

[Ladybt28]

yep that's the way to go with your dates and if you bleed during the 12 days just keep going and vaginally is perfectly safe.  You do it a night so even if you are bleeding you will still absorb the utrogestan.  I wouldn't split the dose of gel - all 3 pumps in the morning.

Your sister is probably right...worry and stress cause headaches and if you are tired then they will just be worse.
Have a good holiday and good luck x

[juliemargaret]

Thank you so very much again Ladybt. Theres my plan then. Can only try.
Ny mums just asking bow i feel...and my explanation was i feel like  im over caffeinated......thats the best way to describe.....like had a caffeine overload. (But havent)

Just worried its the gel making me feel worse......ill keep.going BUT if I.feel worse after 3 pumps.......im.afraid i may just have to stop. But fingers.crossed. i know im.cntradicting all ive just said. (My plan etc!!) but just a thought....as if the P has left my body its on the estrogel.thats been applied and the way i feel seems.magnified......
And dont eve  recall jitters like this before started ! Os there a thing as too much estrogen?

[Ladybt28]

Some women say there is but I experienced the opposite - my jitters and panic and headaches all went away on more pumps and were there on different treatments and not enough pumps.  Oestrogen is the thing that is supposed to supress the symptoms.

You may feel a tad worse JM but don't give up until you have at least done a month otherwise you will never know. xxx  now stop worrying and put your feet up  my lovely xx