Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Please have a look at the questionnaire page if you have a spare minute.

media

Author Topic: Help - hurdity and ladybt28  (Read 2854 times)

juliemargaret

  • Guest
Help - hurdity and ladybt28
« on: July 30, 2019, 12:18:40 PM »

Hi both - sorry for a new topic but was hoping this would find you both faster! Apols for non replys to the posts you kindly replied to on the estrogel & utrogestan  support thread but i jave been away and wifi not good.

You may remember im peri...*UPDATE  -
 Now 3 months of estrogel and alternate eve vag utro. Been.ok....not amazing.
.feel just plodding along really. Remember i had 4 bleeds.since.starting  and you both said these may keep occuring as my own cycle still in play (altho dont know where its at now due to this hrt !)..i stopped bleeding 6th july (im convinced the 1st - 6th was a real.period ) and had none since BUT this morn a show as if starting period again (and 4 weeks since last) so im wondering if tbis again is my own cycle chirping in...had headache and tender full breasts too...like i would pre hrt. So.....ahain needing your (or anyone who would like to chime in!) .shall i take the plunge and try a cycle...a sequi..OR shall i just carry on alterbate day given no huge problems..but still not feeling great as hoped and do feel i coukd feel better! If i start a cycle.....WHEN should i start? I am thinking that 1st aug be a good time as feel coincides with what i hope is start of my cycle (if its not today or tmw as only having a bit of bloody disch but sure the proper bleeds coming) ie - count 1st aug as day 1 and just have my gel up to day 15 thrn add 100mg utro vag each eve for 12 days (im reluctant to try 200mg as i know it will wipe me....i struggle now sometimes!).

Sorry for veering away from the original thread but i was worried may not get to you  both (and i know you have both offered a guiding hand in helping me to go onto a cycle) and im trying to start at a good time which i think may be now..or on thurs 1st at at least!

A little scared to change to sequi given ive stayed on this regine 3 months....and could be just waiting for THE day soon whrn it all falls into place (dont think it is tho!!). Im.also scared of the 12 days progesterone side effects that some people have....feeling low..tired etc BUT i also feel i need to get more in harmony with my bodys natural stste still being peri and have a.bleed end each month as feel like ive lost all the 'natural' rhythms i had pre hrt. Im.also worried that i will be disturbing the 3 months that ive let it settle and will wreak havoc?

Hoping you get this - i need to decide and take action otherwise i feel i may have to stop hrt.as just feel like rubbing gel on and pushing up tablets.and all for nowt as dont feel much better really...not sure!! 💚💚
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 12:29:14 PM by Jmargaret »
Logged

Ladybt28

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1422
Re: Help - hurdity and ladybt28
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2019, 12:48:15 PM »

Hi Jmargret,
Just so you know I have seen this but am working so it wont be as long or thought out as usual.
First thing - you last bit about giving up hrt cos you don't know if its working - well if you stop it then you will soon find out but you will undo any work you have done over the last months. (oh and you could be right about giving up too soon - you could hang on in there 1 more month and see if it does fall into place)
2nd thing - looking at the dates and the symptoms you describe and the fact that 4 weeks have gone by, before what feels like to you as a "proper period" - then I would say that it is your own cycle (cos you are peri) kicking in again.  It is very hard to balance a continuous regime when you are in peri.
3rd thing - my gut instinct says - you should trust you own gut instinct - you know your body best and I would suggest that there is no right or wrong regime for women, just one that works for them (as long as you are not doing anything radically off licence which has not had thorough discussion somewhere on the forum and got a thumbs up!).

if you go one more month before deciding continuous isn't for you then at least you will know for a fact.  I wouldn't give up altogether - you need to have tried loads of hrt regimes (in my opinion  :-X) before you decide it doesn't work for you - you will only carry on feeling rotten which is why you started in the first place.
Then you could go to a cycle and see what happens - as said before this is really trial and error and there is usually not quick fix.  Its usually a process of ruling things out rather than confirming them in.

Let me know what you think on this bit.  Hope Hurdity is along soon - so we can both hear what she thinks - you could always PM her?
Logged

juliemargaret

  • Guest
Re: Help - hurdity and ladybt28
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2019, 04:31:27 PM »

Ladybt28 thank you SO vey much for taking the time. Ive taken on board all youve said.....and agree....to listen to my gut, and as i usually do....but for some reason im not hearing many answers. Strange u said that  as this morning when i woke and realised this whole hrt stuff and "need to make a decison" had been on my mind before bed I remember thinking "come on...show me the way...give me a sign of what path i need to take, take heed and i shall listen" - guess my intuition/gut/heart didnt get the memo hahaa!

Jokes aside....yes still fearful of messing up an ok 3 months but also feel im just, and as i said, rubbing in gel and pushing up a pill....hobestly dont feel much change....energy low at the min..motivation too.....coccyx tender and bladder a bit weak so im.not sure not been any real.changes where i can say " you know what...i feel great...energy and.mojo!". Dunno. Was even wondering if i needed to up my gel? I know its all a jigsaw...bit doesnt help when youre none the wiser really abt low this or low that...im still learning you see! Ive a sore throat and cold at the min so feel a bit mild fluey....havent had a while .....so this probs not helping....and as i said...think my cycle is starting. Feel foggy headed and confused...but of happy heart! Just want to feel clearer....more energised..
Etc. Something is amiss....that i know.

Ill have anothet think on it.....and maybe hurdity will also pop up. I did think and as you said to try another month and see......i mean no big harm happening....but then again ....as i said...think somethings amiss and i need to tweak.

Apols for looong message. As youve probs figured....im good with such 😂

J xx
Logged

Ladybt28

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1422
Re: Help - hurdity and ladybt28
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2019, 04:43:30 PM »

jmargaret...it depends how long you had your symptoms before starting hrt.  I have a theory that the longer you have them the longer the body takes to adjust.  It took me 5 months to feel ok on gel and utro on a cycle and over 7 to feel "well".  I had a really bad time.  I started hrt when I was peri at 45 and I am now 57 so been through the whole thing.  I was put on prempak C a combined hrt on a cycle cos I had a cycle and it never even touched my symptoms but I didn't know that then!  Over 3 years I have had 5 others and in the last year only found the "right one".

My foggy head got better on the gel but didn't go away until I started taking testosterone but they wont start you on testosterone (usually) until you have your progesterone and gel sorted.  I cannot and could not take progesterone continuously it messed with my mood and my underlying depression to the point where I couldn't cope.  Therefore in full meno although all conventional wisdom says I should be taking it continuously to avoid a bleed, I just cannot do it so I don't.

Your own hormones may still be too strong to balance a "no bleed regime".  Personally I think it is too hard to try in peri and I don't thing you are very old in the meno stakes all things considered so your own hormones are still surging. Personally I would give it one more month, up the gel a bit and then if not feeling any better go to a cycle.  xx  I know you think its not working but patience plays a big part in this meno business  :)
Logged

juliemargaret

  • Guest
Re: Help - hurdity and ladybt28
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2019, 05:04:36 PM »

Thank you again love. Its reassurong to know you were my age when you started. I think in alll honesty my hormones have been real out of whack many yrs!! My son is 14 soon and it was followong his birth for urs after that i think i was in slow peri. I dont think my hormones ever re balanced back. I even wrote a blog all them yrs ago called "woman on the verge of the perimeni"......symptoms galore that only now i can maybe say....thats what it was.

Ok....im.gonna wait another month. Up my gel in the morning to another half pump would you say ? So its then 2 and a half ...or 3?  And ill see how goes. Ill also make a firm note of when i bleed so  IF i do decide after a month to go on a cycle then i have an idea of where im at. Thats what ill do from tomorrow then - up my gel to x amount...an extra month....try switch off....enjoy my hol in a few weeks....and evaluate. How do we know tho when more gel is needed phys? Low mood...bladder etc? How do we know if we are like low estrogen or too much or low prog or too much?

One more curiosity.....suppose IF i find i pick up...ie.the alternate regime settles and i feel good (heres hoping!).....will this be safe/healthy for me...ie ...no bleed regime...as just wondering....will it supress my natural rhythms and cause more.bother in the long term...OR if its ok and works then will be abso fine?

Again apols for the long reply. ..and questions ! Think ill sleep better tonight knowing made a 'another month and up the gel" decision ! (And have lovely support nearby!!)

Love j x
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 05:12:31 PM by Jmargaret »
Logged

Ladybt28

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1422
Re: Help - hurdity and ladybt28
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2019, 11:37:51 PM »

Jmargaret - if it settles it will be perfectly fine and healthy for you.  I upped mine half a pump at a time and waited at least a week to try and work out what happened. Its a bit of a pain but worth it in the end because if you try and go quicker its hard to work out what your body is doing.
Good Luck x  Let us know how its going.
Logged

juliemargaret

  • Guest
Re: Help - hurdity and ladybt28
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2019, 06:57:28 AM »

Thank you again Ladybt28!
Will keep you posted. 💚💚
Logged

Hurdity

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 14080
Re: Help - hurdity and ladybt28
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2019, 07:34:02 AM »

Hi Jmargaret

Sounds like Ladybt has given you all the info advice and support you need :)

Just to add - not quite sure of the question but just to reiterate that if you are not very far into peri ie natural periods were pretty regular then you are unlikely to settle into a no-bleed regime - in terms of periods - although as Ladybt says if you feel fine then all should be well.

re when to start a cycle - Day 1 of a cycle is the first day of the bleed and then depending on what cyclical regime you are doing - if the NHS recommended regime of 12 days then you would start the utro on Day 15 and continue to Day 26. If your bleed is a bit less due to the alternate day utro then it might not be quite in sync but you can then tweak it maybe? However in peri cycles vary so once you start on a cyclical regime best to stick with it unless it seems to be way out with your cycle?

Hurdity x
Logged

juliemargaret

  • Guest
Re: Help - hurdity and ladybt28
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2019, 02:43:51 PM »

Thanks again Ladybt28 and Hurdity!!
Woke jittery and still questioning my decisons! Also woke to a full in bleed so looking at this as a period. My periods before although spot on for many yrs at a 28 day cycle had been fluctuating for good few yrs before....im deffo not early peri. Ladybt28 offered me great advise as always  - u both do- and i said yeaterday "right! Gonna give it another month, alternate days and up my gel by  a bit"...BUT......then last night came.across a book - old one, but interesting (john lee) about how progesterone is the missing hornone we need...and estrogen is not....then i have the othet book there - estrogen matters'....so my head was in a spin !! I stsrted reading a bit abput prog...and he says its essential.and were too quick.yo think its estrogen thats needed more....was interesting.... but as ny husband pointed out (yes!) Its an old book and probs doesbt even apply now!!!
Anyway...did leave me thinking and wondering and again questioning (sick.of myself and this, so underatand if you both eyeroll  at me as im eyerolling too !!) just how confusing it all is and no wondet i feel as i do ! Huh!

So....debating to take plunge and count.today as day 1 of cycle then on 15 try 12.days but only at 100.g see how i go!!!  Im.just scared as never had estrogen on its own....and also wary of a full 12.days on progesterone and the possible nasties that could ensue! Plus im.going on hol 23rd aug ! Its a ninefuled when you dont really understsnd or know whether low estro...low prostr...high estro high postro etc..and whatbis needed!! 

I asked myself the question before (again!!!).....and again tried to tap into my intuition and as ladybt28 said to...but its not playing - why am i not sure abt this regime im on....alternate day and 2 pumps estro? And i honestly had no answer except i dont know.  All i do know is im questioning why i started...and did i really feel that bad....but i know i didnt feel good!!!  I dont feel awfully bad now just same i supose...more so plodding along and rubbing in gel and pushing up pills!!  haha.

Agaiin...apologies..and thank you
Logged

Ladybt28

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1422
Re: Help - hurdity and ladybt28
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2019, 04:16:14 PM »

Right so forget the books Jmargaret.  If you have a womb then you need to take progesterone whatever regime you are on.  When you are in peri - all the hormones are declining (at different rates) - when you are in full meno (defined as 12 months without any period at all) they are pretty much gone.
If you have a womb then you need both the hormones if you have symptoms such as flushes, anxiety, joint pain, reflux, dryness etc etc.
So based on the fact you need both the hormones, oestrogen and progesterone (testosterone comes later) replaced to control any symptoms the question is - do you take the progesterone on a continuous basis or on a cycle?
As I said before it is very hard (and Hurdity agreed) for a peri women to try and balance a continuous regime of progesterone (every day or every other day) because they get breakthrough bleeding when their own homones kick in.  This is what is happening to you.

There are no nasties if you ensure you take the required amount of progesterone, that is (1) either every day (or other day) which can be 100mg or (2) 200mg for 12 days a month.

It is up to you - either keep going with what you are doing for another month or change as Hurdity said to the cycle method.  You usually change to a cycle method on day 1 of the month using only gel - go to day 15 and then start using your utrogesten for 12 days together with your gel every day - then stop the utro after the 12 days but continue on with the gel only.  A bleed should come 4/5 days after you stop the utro.  This is the "bleed" from stopping the utrogestan.  However, as you switch over you may have problems with your own "periods" kicking in until you can work out which is the "fake bleed" (so to speak) and which is being generated by your own body.

If you can work out which is being generated by your own body - work back from the period start date by 12 days and adjust the cycle accordingly.  You just need to make a decision Honey and stick to it xx :)
Logged

juliemargaret

  • Guest
Re: Help - hurdity and ladybt28
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2019, 04:24:06 PM »

Hi ladybt28 - im.sorry to bother you....but....would you possibly be able to help me transition to a cycle. I read what you said in yr last post about going back 12 days and adjusting from then but im not totally clear....
I feel lke crying....i mean im okay....just so worn down with this whole thing and cant be bothered doing nowt...questioning everything and shoulda woulda couldas...ie would it be better to wait as planned.abother 2 weeks on alternate utro....should i..could i...etc!! Today i teied to get appt with 2 diff meno specialists nearby both not free until sept.and october..so have to forget that for now....and just do it myself  so next step is a sequi and coming off the utro. I mean i keep asking myself if i feel  ok..any better....but just totally cant be arsed doing much......feel like i 'used to' before hrt and which prompted me to start it!! Feelings of no motivation....lethargy....general detachment and cant be botheredness. No libido really and my coccyx bone still sore as well as breasts that dont feel like my own (do get tender but this a bit diff)
Wanted to not take my utro last night.....and just face the withdrawals and have a few weeks on just gel....but then got scared....of all.sorts - how i may be during the withdrawal phase (birdys posts worried me) and also the worry of not protecting womb espec since i upped gel by half.
I need to take this friggin bull by the horns once and for all....so...if you have time and patience would you be able to help me work out a possibke cycle date based on wheni think my last real.period was?
Not to worry if not......jsut dont know who else to ask. (Shared all with mum today and god love her shes soooo suportive but harped on about how she felt amazing when she bad hrt all them yrs ago and why isnt it working for ne then even said i may be anaemic etc.....duhhhhh.)
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 01:04:40 PM by Jmargaret »
Logged