Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Dandelion]

Hi
I am addicted to valium 32mg, officially prescribed.
Valium and progesterone are cross tolerant, both act on GABA receptors.
This is a bit of a dossier
Last year I was on a prescription of 100mcg evorel and 200mg oral progesterone sequi as I am in peri.
In 2016, when I realised I was addicted to valium, I also noticed on the days I wasnt taking the utro, my mental state went right downhill, so I started to take 100mg utro daily without telling my GP.
My then psychiatric nurse  noticed my mental state improved.
Fast forward to 2018, I started getting spotting for months and eventually got it checked.
In Dec I told my GP I had changed from 200mg sequentially to 100mg daily and she said to stay on that until I see the gynae who she referred me to.
I got a scan which showed a slightly thickened womb lining.
I got a hysteroscopy in January which showed some estrogen stimulation.
I explained about valium and progesterone interactions to the gynae and he was very understanding. I had spoken to Dr Currie by email and we discussed the possibility of adding a vaginal extra utrogestan which my gynae and GP agreed with.
All went well until June this year. I started getting all colours of discharge ranging from yellow to dark brown to heavy red.
On 25th and 26th June, I started bleeding red really heavily, even had severe pelvic pain and after this, passed a huge 4 inch dark clot in the morning, which I told Dr Currie about.
I have a slight prolapse so I drink a lot of water but always urinate before I insert the vaginal utro, however sometimes, as mentioned in earlier posts, I have to urinate an hour or so after inserting the vaginal.
One night after the clot, because I had to urinate after inserting the vaginal utro, and I inserted another one the same night. The next day the bleeding stopped abruptly.
The following night, even though I urinated before inserting the vaginal utro, I needed to go again but this time I did NOT insert an extra utrogestan.
I had no bleeding since, and saw my GP on 3rd July who said I may need to go for investigation.
She said light brown, yellow discharge not a problem but dark red or red could be.
I expressed my concerns about my inability to change my progestin because I have friends from a valium support group who have reduced their progesterone and it has sent them into incpacitation.
One of them only reduced her prog from 13mg to 11mg and is now incpacitated.
Progesterone with non valium addicted women, or women who have never been addicted to valium is not a problem when coming off it, but women who are weaning off valium or who have come off it have massive problems when changing or slowly reducing their progesetrone.
Apparently the menopause expert Elizabeth Vliet in her book "Crying to be heard" said the metabolites of progesterone are more potent than klonopin, which is 20 times stronger than valium.
I was not bleeding at the time I saw my GP on 3rd July, I think this is because some nights, even though I try to have an empty stomach at bedtime, my stomach doesn't feel quite so empty, I can tell because when I drink water on a morning, I burp up a little bit of acid.
My GP said they don't do scans anymore and there is no clear cut answer. She said hysteroscopy is the only investigation they do for abnormal bleeding.
I read on a private gynae site that it has to be taken on an empty stomach as taking it with food increases absorption but there is never much food in my stomach when i take it.
My GP wants to see me on 31st July.
Anyway, all went well after the double dose of progesterone and the stoppage of red blood but this morning I woke to pale pink watery discharge and now i am passing pale brown discharge with tiny dark bits in. This is how the last bleed in Early june started.
I absolutely cannot change progestin or even take 200mg oral progesterone because it will upset my GABA receptors and valium.
I can't go on a different progestin for the same reason, same with IUD.
My gynae said my cervix is stenosed.
I expressed concern about cervical cancer to Dr Currie as I have not had a smear for 6 years and she reassured me that the gynae would have noticed changes to the cervix when I had my hysteroscopy in January.
I am just wondering why I am bleeding again.
I insert the utro really high up. I go to bed on a not-quite-empty-stomach more times than I urinate after inserting the vaginal utro and if I absolutely have to urinate after inserting the vaginal utro, I place my finger over my vagina (sorry for too much information) while I urinate. A bit messy but I was my hands afterwards.
Anyway, as well as the evorel, I'm taking 100mg oral utro, 100mg vaginal daily (agreed by gynae and GP) yet this bleeding has started up again in June, stopped after clot and double utro at end of june and now has started again today.
This is how it started last time, small amounts since early june, then heavy red. I had sore boobs but dont have them now.
I just cannot figure out why the utrogestan is not stopping the bleeding.
All help would be appreciated, thanks.
PS just been to urinate and noticed dark brown discharge on sanitary towel.
I had a smear booked for tomorrow as I have not bled since before seeing GP but had to cancel it online today now that I am bleeding again, as surgery said they cant do smears when bleeding.

[Dandelion]

Hello
Sorry to bump this thread, hope someone can help.

[Hurdity]

Hi Dandelion

If you have been varying the amounts of progesterone you are taking and you did have a thickened lining - then this probably accounts for the bleeding. Depending on how thick - then it has to be thinned and this is achieved either by very strong progestogens or progesterone. If you just carry on taking progesterone then once the amount absorbed drops for whatever reason then whatever lining has built up is likely to come away. If the hysterosocopy showed no abnormalities apart from a somewhat thickened lining ( did you get told the thickness?), then it is unlikely to be anything to worry about - just the lining coming away. Also if you are still peri-menopausal and ovulating (you may not know now what stage you are at as you have been taking HRT for some time?) then your own cycle will come into play along with the HRT, whether or not you are using continuous combined HRT.

If you use Utro vaginally then the empty stomch part is irrelevant. However if you are taking it orally - then if taken with food then this INCREASES the bioavailability of progesterone so if you are worried about not getting enough then take it sooner after your last meal. I guess also these instructions are to try to make the amount absorbed more consistent - because taken orally the amount getting to the uterus can vary due to digestion, so increasing the likelihood of random bleeds.

I am surprised by your GP telling you this re scans - as a U/S scan followed by a trans-vaginal one is the easiest and quickest way to determine if there is likely to be a problem with the uterus. A hysteroscopy is more invasive and more expensive as it has to be done at a specialist clinic whereas scans are common and straightforward.

I think your GP should refer you for a scan if you have abnormal bleeding - although it sounds like it may not be abnormal. In short, the utrogestan won't stop the bleeding if the lining is thickened and the amount of progesterone varies. Eventually once you are post-menopausal, if you are taking sufficient progesterone to balance the oestrogen then you won't bleed.

Sore boobs can be an indication of your own cycle coming into play, or a rise in oestrogen or progesterone.

Hope this helps?

Hurdity x

[Dandelion]

Hi Dandelion

If you have been varying the amounts of progesterone you are taking and you did have a thickened lining - then this probably accounts for the bleeding. Depending on how thick - then it has to be thinned and this is achieved either by very strong progestogens or progesterone. If you just carry on taking progesterone then once the amount absorbed drops for whatever reason then whatever lining has built up is likely to come away. If the hysterosocopy showed no abnormalities apart from a somewhat thickened lining ( did you get told the thickness?), then it is unlikely to be anything to worry about - just the lining coming away. Also if you are still peri-menopausal and ovulating (you may not know now what stage you are at as you have been taking HRT for some time?) then your own cycle will come into play along with the HRT, whether or not you are using continuous combined HRT.

If you use Utro vaginally then the empty stomch part is irrelevant. However if you are taking it orally - then if taken with food then this INCREASES the bioavailability of progesterone so if you are worried about not getting enough then take it sooner after your last meal. I guess also these instructions are to try to make the amount absorbed more consistent - because taken orally the amount getting to the uterus can vary due to digestion, so increasing the likelihood of random bleeds.

I am surprised by your GP telling you this re scans - as a U/S scan followed by a trans-vaginal one is the easiest and quickest way to determine if there is likely to be a problem with the uterus. A hysteroscopy is more invasive and more expensive as it has to be done at a specialist clinic whereas scans are common and straightforward.

I think your GP should refer you for a scan if you have abnormal bleeding - although it sounds like it may not be abnormal. In short, the utrogestan won't stop the bleeding if the lining is thickened and the amount of progesterone varies. Eventually once you are post-menopausal, if you are taking sufficient progesterone to balance the oestrogen then you won't bleed.

Sore boobs can be an indication of your own cycle coming into play, or a rise in oestrogen or progesterone.

Hope this helps?

Hurdity x

Hi Hurdity

Thank you for your well thought out reply. I've got a few more questions, hope you don't mind.
You are very knowledgeable about menopause and gynaecology, how is this?
Hope you don't mind me asking, was wondering why you were so knowledgeable.
There was only a really really slight thickening of the uterus in the scan.

I cannot alter my progesterone or take other progestins, like IUD or any other medication as this will alter my GABA which valium and the metabolites of progesterone act on and would send me into an incapacitating state of withdrawal, I informed the gynae about this in January when he did consultation for my hysteroscopy.

I'm taking 200mg progesterone, so I wonder, why the sudden bleeding now, when everything was ok since January when my progesterone was upped?

I always try to take the oral utro on an empty stomach, but sometimes the stomach doesn't quite feel full.
Increaseing the utro, by taking it on a full stomach or taking it all orally would be like increasing the valium, due to the cross tolerance of that and progesterone's metabolites.
I wonder if the odd few times when I've urinated after inserting the vaginal prog has caused me to bleed?

The GP said the scans were no longer done here because they proved inaccurate since January. I theorise that although scans are cheaper than hysteroscopies, they may be saving money by missing out the scan on abnormal bleeding and going straight to hysteroscopy but that could be wrong, just me theorising.

As for the sore boobs, I've been bleeding dark brown and a bit of red this last few days, but got no sore boobs. Very very slight pelvic pain yesterday, barely noticeable, no pain today.
I just wonder if its something I have done to cause the bleeds but I definitely don't want to alter my 100mg vaginal/100mg oral utro regime as it will have a disasterous effect on my mental health, the gynae wrote something to this effect to my GP.
Thanks