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Menopause Matters magazine ISSUE 75 out now. (Spring issue, March 2024)

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Author Topic: Experiences of Giving Up HRT  (Read 5994 times)

Maxwin

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Re: Experiences of Giving Up HRT
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2019, 01:30:25 PM »

I was always led to believe that tall thinner ladies suffered more symptoms than shorter cuddly ladies  :) must admit a few friends who are bit larger than me do have lovely skin.
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Kathleen

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Re: Experiences of Giving Up HRT
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2019, 06:40:55 PM »

Hello again ladies

Maxwin -    Japanese women are usually short and thin so if they do have fewer symptoms that adds to the confusion!

Obviously no one can change their physique or their genetics but if there is something we can do help ourselves it  would be fabulous to know what it is!

Wishing you well.

K.
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Jari

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Re: Experiences of Giving Up HRT
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2019, 07:36:10 PM »

Hello ladies, I found this document. It's a bit of a long read, but if anyone feels like some bedtime reading! ;)

It talks a bit about weight and hot flushes. X

October 27, 2008
Persistent Hot Flushes in Older Postmenopausal Women


Objective  To examine the prevalence, natural history, and predictors of hot flushes in older postmenopausal women.

Methods  Prevalence, severity, and 3-year change in severity of hot flushes were assessed by questionnaire in 3167 older postmenopausal women with osteoporosis. Logistic regression was used to identify characteristics associated with symptoms at baseline and after 3 years of follow-up.

Results  At baseline, 375 women (11.8%) reported bothersome hot flushes. Women were more likely to have baseline symptoms if they were less educated (odds ratio [OR], 1.28; 95% confidence interval [CI], 1.06-1.53 per 4-year decrease), more recently menopausal (OR, 1.44; 95% CI, 1.34-1.56 per 5-year decrease), had previously used estrogen (OR, 1.57; 95% CI, 1.23-2.00), or had undergone hysterectomy (OR, 1.51; 95% CI, 1.14-1.99). Hot flushes were also associated with higher body mass index (OR, 1.22; 95% CI, 1.08-1.38 per 1 SD), higher follicle-stimulating hormone levels (OR, 1.34; 95% CI, 1.20-1.51 per 1 SD), lower high-density lipoprotein levels (OR, 1.17; 95% CI, 1.03-1.34 per 1 SD decrease), vaginal dryness (OR, 1.52; 95% CI, 1.19-1.93), and trouble sleeping (OR, 2.48; 95% CI, 1.94-3.16), but not estradiol levels. Of the 375 women with baseline symptoms, 278 contributed 3-year data, and 157 (56.5%) of these women reported persistent symptoms after 3 years. Fewer years since menopause (OR, 1.15; 95% CI, 1.01-1.32 per 5-year decrease) and trouble sleeping (OR, 1.97; 95% CI, 1.19-3.26) were associated with symptom persistence.

Conclusions  For a substantial minority of women, hot flushes are a persistent source of discomfort into the late postmenopausal years. Identification of risk factors for hot flushes may help guide evaluation and treatment in this population.


Hot flushes are among the most frequent complaints of women during the menopausal transition, affecting up to 80% of women within the first year of cessation of menses.1,2 These common symptoms have been shown to negatively affect quality of life by disturbing sleep, interfering with work and leisure activities, and exacerbating anxiety and depression.3-5 With several randomized controlled trials pointing to the negative long-term effects of systemic estrogen therapy in postmenopausal women,6,7 there is growing interest in identifying modifiable risk factors for hot flushes and developing alternate therapies for these symptoms.

In most women, hot flushes resolve within a few years of menopause, but some women report symptoms for many years after they cease to menstruate. Very little attention has been given to the substantial minority of women who continue to have hot flushes 5 or more years after menopause, even though it is these women who appear to be at greatest risk of suffering adverse effects from using estrogen to treat their symptoms.6 At this time, the prevalence of hot flushes in older postmenopausal women has not been well documented, predictors of symptoms in older postmenopausal women have not been examined, and it is not clear why hot flushes resolve in some women, but continue for many years in others.

To address this issue, we analyzed data from 3167 women enrolled in the Multiple Outcomes of Raloxifene Evaluation (MORE) trial, of whom more than 95% were 5 or more years postmenopausal. Our goal was to describe the natural history of hot flushes in older postmenopausal women and to identify factors associated with persistence of hot flushes in this population.

Methods
The MORE trial evaluated the effects of 3 years of treatment with the selective estrogen receptor modulator raloxifene hydrochloride in a population of women younger than 80 years, all of whom were at least 2 years postmenopausal and met the World Health Organization criteria for osteoporosis (femoral neck or lumbar spine bone mineral density >2.5 SDs below normal, or history of at least 1 moderate or 2 mild prevalent vertebral fractures regardless of baseline bone density). Women were excluded if they had taken androgens, calcitonin, or bisphosphonates in the previous 6 months, had used oral estrogen in the previous 2 months, or required estrogen for treatment of severe menopausal symptoms. Complete inclusion and exclusion criteria, as well as procedures for subject recruitment and follow-up in MORE, have previously been described.8 A total of 7705 women from 25 countries were randomized to placebo or to 60 or 120 mg of raloxifene daily, and English-speaking women from the 65 participating sites in the United States (n = 3167; 1049 in the placebo group and 2118 in the raloxifene groups) completed detailed female history questionnaires, including questions about menopausal symptoms. The MORE trial was approved by the human research review boards at all sites, and informed consent was obtained from all participants.

Severity of hot flushes was assessed at baseline and after 3 years of follow-up. Women were asked, “During the past 6 months, did any [hot flushes] bother you or interfere with your life?” Response options included “all of the time,” “most of the time,” “some of the time,” “little of the time,” and “none of the time.” For the purposes of analysis, women who reported bothersome hot flushes “some,” “most,” or “all” of the time were considered to have “clinically significant” hot flushes, while those who reported bothersome hot flushes “none” or “little” of the time were considered to have no clinically significant hot flushes. Two other symptoms found to be associated with menopause by the 2005 National Institutes of Health State-of-the-Science Panel on treatment of menopausal symptoms,9 vaginal dryness and trouble sleeping, were also assessed using similarly worded questions.

Data on participants' demographic characteristics, medical history, health-related habits, and medication use were recorded at baseline. Depression was measured using the Geriatric Depression Scale, a screening instrument validated in elderly populations; scores of more than 5 are consistent with clinical depression.10 Participants' height and weight were also measured, and body mass index was calculated as weight in kilograms divided by height in meters squared.

Serum total estradiol level was measured at baseline by SciCor (Covance) Central Laboratory Services (Indianapolis, Indiana) using a double antibody assay process.11 Serum estradiol concentrations were reported by the laboratory as 5.0 pmol/L or less or as exact values for estradiol levels greater than 5.0 pmol/L; for those 1321 women (41.7%) with serum estradiol levels of 5.0 pmol/L or less, a value of 2.5 was extrapolated for analysis (to convert estradiol to picograms per milliliter, divide by 3.671). Follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and thyroid-stimulating hormone levels were also measured by SciCor (Covance) using microparticle enzyme immunoassay technology. Fasting blood glucose, high-density lipoprotein (HDL), low-density lipoprotein, and triglyceride levels were also measured.

Multivariable logistic regression was used to identify demographic and clinical characteristics associated with having clinically significant hot flushes among participants at baseline. We evaluated characteristics implicated in previous epidemiologic studies of hot flushes, including years since menopause, race, education level, smoking, alcohol use, body mass index, hysterectomy, oophorectomy, depression, physical activity, serum estradiol levels, and serum FSH levels. In addition, we evaluated associations with medications that might modulate neurohormonal or vascular mechanisms contributing to hot flushes (ie, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, tricyclic antidepressants, β-blockers, calcium channel blockers, nitrates, α-blockers, aspirin, statins, and nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs). In light of recent research pointing to an interaction between severity of hot flushes and the effects of estrogen therapy on cardiovascular disease in older postmenopausal women,6 we also examined associations with cardiovascular variables such as coronary heart disease history, serum cholesterol levels, and fasting glucose levels.

Predictor variables that were associated with clinically significant hot flushes at a significance of P≤.10 in univariate analyses were initially entered into a multivariable model. Age was excluded from the regression model despite being associated at P≤ .10 in univariate analysis because of colinearity with years since menopause (Spearman rank correlation ρ = 0.73). Backward elimination was then used to exclude predictor variables associated at P>.10. Those variables that were associated with clinically significant hot flushes at P<.05 in adjusted analysis were considered to be independent risk factors for this outcome.

Among the subset of women who reported clinically significant hot flushes at baseline and contributed hot flush data after 3 years (n = 278), we used backward selection logistic regression to identify characteristics associated with having persistent hot flushes after 3 years. Because the proportion of women with persistent hot flushes after 3 years did not differ significantly for women randomized to raloxifene vs placebo in this population (P = .67), we combined data from both treatment groups for these longitudinal analyses. However, because previous research has suggested that raloxifene increases the incidence of hot flushes,12 we retained treatment assignment as a covariate in our multivariable model to confirm that the associations between our other predictor variables and our outcome were not affected by whether women were randomized to raloxifene vs placebo. All analyses were performed using SAS statistical software, version 9.1 (SAS Institute, Inc, Cary, North Carolina). These analyses were approved by the institutional review board of the University of California–San Francisco.

Results
The mean (SD) age of participants was 67 (7) years, and the mean (SD) number of years since menopause was 19 (9). Of the 3167 participants, 3002 were white (94.8%), 3037 were 5 or more years postmenopausal (95.9%), 361 had previously undergone bilateral oophorectomy (11.3%), and 1379 had previously used oral or transdermal estrogen (43.5%) (Table 1). At baseline, 375 women reported experiencing clinically significant hot flushes that were bothersome some, most, or all of the time in the previous 6 months (11.8%) (Table 2). The prevalence of hot flushes was inversely related to time since menopause. Of the 296 women who were only 2 to 5 years postmenopausal, 52 reported clinically significant hot flushes (44.9%); of the 1601 women who were 20 or more years postmenopausal, 125 reported clinically significant hot flushes (7.8%) (P<.01 for trend by years since menopause). In contrast, there was a more gradual decrease in the prevalence of vaginal dryness with increasing years since menopause, and no statistically significant decrease in the prevalence of trouble sleeping with increasing years since menopause (Table 3).

In multivariate analyses, women were more likely to have clinically significant hot flushes if they were less educated, were more recently menopausal, had undergone hysterectomy, or had previously used systemic estrogen (Table 4). Hot flushes were also associated with higher body mass index, higher serum FSH levels, and lower serum HDL cholesterol levels. The association with lower HDL cholesterol levels remained significant even after additional adjustment for use of statin medications. Women with clinically significant hot flushes were also more likely to concomitantly report vaginal dryness or trouble sleeping (Table 4).

In multivariate analysis, no significant associations were seen with smoking, alcohol use, oophorectomy (independent of hysterectomy), depression, aerobic activity, medications other than estrogen, serum estradiol levels, serum LDL cholesterol levels, fasting blood glucose levels, or serum thyroid-stimulating hormone levels. The association of serum estradiol levels with hot flushes remained nonsignificant (P>.10) even when we eliminated participants whose estradiol levels had to be extrapolated because they were below our minimum assay threshold.

Of 375 women who reported clinically significant hot flushes at baseline, data on hot flush severity at the 3-year follow-up visit were available for 278 women (74.1%), but unavailable for 97 women (25.9%). Compared with the 278 women with 3-year data, the 97 women with missing follow-up data were slightly older (mean [SD] years since menopause, 18 [10] vs 15 [9]), reported more extensive prior estrogen use (mean [SD] years of estrogen use, 2.8 [4.7] vs 1.7 [3.3]), had higher rates of depression (12 [12.4%] vs 12 [4.3%]), and had lower rates of aspirin use (24 [24.7%] vs 112 [40.3%]) and nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug use (43 [44.3%] vs 159 [57.2%]), but higher rates of β-blocker use (14 [14.4%] vs 17 [6.1%]). Of 278 women for whom follow-up data were available, 50% reported hot flushes that were unchanged or worse after 3 years, and this proportion did not differ significantly for women randomized to raloxifene vs placebo (P = .67). Hot flushes were more likely to resolve after 3 years if women were farther away from menopause (P<.01 for trend by years since menopause). Among women who were 2 to 5 years postmenopausal and had hot flushes at baseline, 66% reported persistent hot flushes after 3 years, compared with 46% of women who were 20 years postmenopausal (Table 5).

Adjusting for treatment assignment, the only independent predictors of continuing to have significant hot flushes after 3 years in multivariate analysis were fewer years since menopause (odds ratio [OR], 1.15; 95% confidence interval [CI] , 1.01-1.32 for each 5-year decrease) and trouble sleeping (OR, 1.97; 95% CI, 1.19-3.26). There was also a borderline association with baseline fasting blood glucose level (OR, 0.78; 95% CI, 0.59-1.04 per 1 SD increase in blood glucose).

Comment
These analyses of data from a large clinical trial demonstrate that for a substantial minority of women, hot flushes are a significant source of discomfort and distress well into the late postmenopausal years. Among women who were 5 to 9 years postmenopausal, more than 20% reported clinically significant hot flushes, and among those 10 or more years postmenopausal, nearly 10% reported clinically significant hot flushes. Furthermore, more than half of women who complained of significant hot flushes at baseline continued to report persistently bothersome symptoms after 3 years.

Although most research on hot flushes has focused on younger perimenopausal or early postmenopausal women, a few previous studies involving older postmenopausal women have also pointed to a significant prevalence of hot flushes in this population. An analysis of 2763 postmenopausal women aged 55 to 88 years with preexisting coronary artery disease found that 3% had “very frequent” and 13% had “somewhat frequent” hot flushes.13 Among women aged 50 to 79 enrolled in the Women's Health Initiative estrogen plus progestin trial, slightly more than 12% reported “moderate or severe” vasomotor symptoms at baseline. In a survey of women living in Gothenberg, Sweden, 15% of women aged 66 years and 9% of women aged 72 years reported “any” hot flushes, although no assessment of frequency or severity of hot flushes was performed.14

Greater severity of hot flushes was inversely associated with years of education in our study, a finding that has also been noted in studies of perimenopausal and early postmenopausal women.15,16 One theory that has been proposed to explain this association is that highly educated women may be more likely to follow healthier lifestyle habits such as regular physical exercise that may ameliorate the severity of menopausal symptoms15; however, other studies have reported that physical exercise may be detrimental to hot flushes.17,18 Regardless, aerobic activity, alcohol use, and tobacco use were not independently associated with symptoms in our population. Recently, several laboratory-based studies have suggested that hot flushes may be potentiated by increased neurosympathetic activation,19 and it is possible that differences in neurohormonal stress response, which may be increased in individuals of lower socioeconomic status,20 may mediate a relationship between hot flushes and lower educational status.

In our study, women who had undergone hysterectomy were more likely to report hot flushes, regardless of whether they had also undergone oophorectomy. Although some researchers have hypothesized that hysterectomy may cause vascular compromise of the ovaries and earlier ovarian failure,21-23 this phenomenon would not explain the persistently increased risk of hot flushes in women likely to be remote from hysterectomy. Another possibility is that the association between hysterectomy and hot flushes is mediated by the original indication for hysterectomy rather than any direct effect of the procedure itself. Women who undergo hysterectomy for problems such as dysfunctional uterine bleeding may differ hormonally or physiologically in ways that would make them more prone to hot flushes. Alternatively, it is possible that women who undergo hysterectomy for benign conditions may differ in their subjective experience of and willingness to report symptoms such as hot flushes.

We found a significant association between higher body mass index and hot flushes in our study, even though overweight women tend to have higher estrogen levels as a result of adipoctye-based aromatization of estrone and conversion of androstenedione to estrone.24 Previous researchers noting this same paradoxical relationship in younger menopausal women have hypothesized that higher body mass index may lead to earlier ovarian failure, resulting in more severe hot flushes in midlife.5 Nevertheless, this phenomenon would not explain a persistent association between higher body mass index and hot flushes in women who are 5 or more years past menopause. Another hypothesis is that the greater heat insulation afforded by greater adiposity in overweight women leads to more hot flushes as the thermoneutral zone narrows during menopause.25
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Jari

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Re: Experiences of Giving Up HRT
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2019, 07:52:01 PM »

Sorry for such a long post...but in the 8th paragraph up, it says hot flushes were also associated with a higher body mass index...  x x
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Kathleen

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Re: Experiences of Giving Up HRT
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2019, 08:10:14 PM »

Hello Jari

Thank you for your post. Good stuff and your efforts are certainly above and beyond the the call of duty! Well done.

Take care.

K.

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bear

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Re: Experiences of Giving Up HRT
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2019, 08:27:37 PM »

Hello,
I've noticed that my hot flushes increase in frequency when I put on weight. Maybe oestrogen levels are high only in peripheral fat tissue, thus not influencing blood levels and the hypothalamus. I have been experiencing hot flushes since peri-menopause (10 years), but I don't have any signs of VA, maybe because local fat tissue androgens are still converting to oestrogen?
BeaR.
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Jari

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Re: Experiences of Giving Up HRT
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2019, 09:31:34 AM »

Thanks Kathleen! That's interesting you notice an increase in frequency on weight gain bear!
Bear and Kathleen, are you currently taking hrt and if not, what are your current BMI's?

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bear

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Re: Experiences of Giving Up HRT
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2019, 03:01:16 PM »

Hi Jari,
I'm not on HRT. I tried it for 3 months (patches and vaginal Utrogestan),  it didn't stop the hot flushes and worsened the migraines. My BMI used to be 20 before menopause and now it's 26  :o  >:(
BeaR.
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Kathleen

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Re: Experiences of Giving Up HRT
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2019, 04:21:38 PM »

Hello again Jari..

I have been taking HRT in one form or another for six years. I didn't begin using it until I was three years without a period when my symptoms became worse. I suspect that I never found the right combination so I am seriously thinking about giving up on it. My present regime is two pumps of Oestrogel and 100mcg of Utrogestan vaginally every day. My main symptoms  are anxiety, irritability and tearfulness. My BMI is 20 and always has been as I never put on weigh with HRT.

Hope this helps


Wishing you well.

K.
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Wobbles

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Re: Experiences of Giving Up HRT
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2019, 04:21:42 PM »

I wonder if it's just the luck of the draw. I've got a high BMI - 33 - gulp. I'm aiming to get it down to 30 by September but I don't think this has had any effect on my symptoms. If my fatness is contributing to my body making extra eostrogen then I don't need to be on HRT surely. Besides which my metabolism has been all over the place since I started taking it and I've put on at least a stone in a year (moan, grizzle).
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Wobbles

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Re: Experiences of Giving Up HRT
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2019, 04:38:53 PM »

"..women were more likely to have clinically significant hot flushes if they were less educated..." Not sure about that bit! I read that it was supposed to be that higher educated women were more likely to lead healthier lifestyles etc but that would rather depend if you had the money and weren't spending it on drugs/wine/gin/cake etc

 ;D
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Jari

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Re: Experiences of Giving Up HRT
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2019, 04:46:10 PM »

...i didn't like that bit either. 😂
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Charlie62

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Re: Experiences of Giving Up HRT
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2019, 11:38:12 AM »

UPDATE
I reduced my evorel conti patch to a qtr for 2 weeks. Have not had a patch on for 1 week now and no significant symptoms have returned. I admit some joints are a bit achey & the tiredness kicks in now & again but no hot flushes or night sweats. I have also given up on the citalopram as i feel the hrt may have been causing my anxiety & i feel that is improving also. I have also lost a couple of pounds which is a bonus, that might not necessarily be the hrt but that im trying to be more healthier in what i eat. I also take a menopause supplement daily. My only worry is my hair loss doesnt seem to be stopping (which is the reason i am trying to do without the hrt) but i have a gynae & dermatology appt coming up so hopefully i will get some answers from them.
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paisley

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Re: Experiences of Giving Up HRT
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2019, 09:33:44 AM »

I have been in menopause for 10 years & 8 of those years in surgical menopause. I have tried lots of HRTs which have helped a bit but not significantly.  In June 2016 I came off HRT all together. For the first few months it wasn't so bad but by 6 months of being off HRT I felt really really bad & persevered for another 6 months until I couldn't do without it any longer & knew then that taking HRT was better than not taking it all.
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Charlie62

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Re: Experiences of Giving Up HRT
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2019, 01:45:38 PM »

UPDATE
The dreaded symptoms have returned, was doing ok for a couple of weeks but now night sweats, hot flushes, insomnia, anxiety have all returned and the hair loss has not got any better. i am trying to cope until my gynae appt in a few weeks time so if i have tests my body is free of any hrt. I was so hoping i could manage but i don't think i can. Hopefully i can the right hrt for me  :'(
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