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[Gynaikeíos]

This meat free business is not to do with climate change. It looks as if political agitators have done a super-slick exercise to stick climate change on to their don't eat meat campaigns. Look at how many people say the mantras they have planted like little children repeating advertising slogans

Processes to limit damaging increases in world temperature cannot be simplified into going meat free in just the same way as simplifying by eating plant based. Burning fossil fuels is what is at the root of human made climate change.

Increasing vegetables in diets is going to be very good for the health of people who eat too much processed foods. That is where the benefits are for them. If vegetables are brought across the world on transport that uses fossil fuels, or are grown where they damage the soil to release carbon into the air, they can be very bad for the climate.

I live in Britain which has for now a climate that is definitely good to produce a variety of healthy foods. My family is doing our dietary bit against climate change by eating red meat, dairy, cereals, and vegetables from the British Isles. The carbon footprint of food from our countries in Britain is small (political agitators quote figures from countries where it is high to dupe us), and we have good rains (for now) which is important in growing food. Vegetable boxes can be  little samey in winter,  but so what?

[Aprilflower]

This meat free business is not to do with climate change. It looks as if political agitators have done a super-slick exercise to stick climate change on to their don't eat meat campaigns. Look at how many people say the mantras they have planted like little children repeating advertising slogans

Processes to limit damaging increases in world temperature cannot be simplified into going meat free in just the same way as simplifying by eating plant based. Burning fossil fuels is what is at the root of human made climate change.

Increasing vegetables in diets is going to be very good for the health of people who eat too much processed foods. That is where the benefits are for them. If vegetables are brought across the world on transport that uses fossil fuels, or are grown where they damage the soil to release carbon into the air, they can be very bad for the climate.

I live in Britain which has for now a climate that is definitely good to produce a variety of healthy foods. My family is doing our dietary bit against climate change by eating red meat, dairy, cereals, and vegetables from the British Isles. The carbon footprint of food from our countries in Britain is small (political agitators quote figures from countries where it is high to dupe us), and we have good rains (for now) which is important in growing food. Vegetable boxes can be  little samey in winter,  but so what?

Excellent post.👍

[CLKD]

Good post.  Remember when everything was seasonal and dates in long boxes at C.mas time? Whilst imported food should encourage people to eat more heathly, taking away processed foods would be a starter.  However, some then say that fresh food is too expensive ...... getting rid of use-by dates might be a start so that people use up what's in the bottom of the fridge?

Farmers should stop using huge machinery which impacts the soil = large puddles in which sea gulls swim.  I am amazed that in the Fens there are such puddles .  Problem is that there are now contractors so farmers have to wait until the man with the large machine arrives at his farm, instead of diy! 

[Gynaikeíos]

There was a program on BBC about the terrible things that processed food do to how we feel hunger and satisfaction earlier this year. Processing and adding ingredients we don't have in our traditional recipes plays lots of tricks on metabolism. Food for thought in that program.

I suppose that while people want their food to cost nothing, these big heavy machines will be used to grow it. Wages go up, and what is sold from the fields drops in price in reality. My car is on hire on a contract. I could not afford to buy it myself. Maybe that is how farm machines are these days? A few big ones are cheaper to run in money terms?

I drive past fields that grow crops to produce electricity. They have big machines on them all year round that the soil must be very damaged. So many journeys and  so much  damage to soil and everything in it to make "vegan" electricity from anaerobic [thanks predictive spelling  ] digesters that should be digesting waste!

The world is mad, but that is beyond mad.

[sheila99]

You can buy a house for the price of a combine harvester. Food used to be a significant part of household expenditure, now it's a fraction of it. We want ever cheaper food but also want the land farmed as it was in 1930. It's impossible to have both. Dairy farms are the same. Milk is cheaper than water so it's impossible to make a living on a family sized 60 cow farm. So farms get bigger and have 500 cows and the result is that the cows can't go out as there are too many to graze near the farmstead. Expect it to get worse. With the withdrawal of EU subsidies many more family farms will go out of business

[Gynaikeíos]

Those are so expensive!!!

Maybe if we demanded fewer holidays and possessions, we could be paying farmers more for what they produce? Fewer holidays, less travelling, less fuel burned for leisure, less CO2 released. Win win.

We learned that we could have a nice break literally at home last year. We don't have a Palace, but we played holidays.

I cannot work out how our food can be grown when the counties of England that are the bread baskets and vegetable growing areas are experiencing higher sea levels because of climate change. Warm water expands, doesn't it? If the government has thousands of hectares of trees planted,  where do the new growing areas come from?

[sheila99]

Brazil probably. More amazon rain forest felled for farm land. This government seems to be doing it's best to make sure there are no farmers here.

[Aprilflower]

You can buy a house for the price of a combine harvester. Food used to be a significant part of household expenditure, now it's a fraction of it. We want ever cheaper food but also want the land farmed as it was in 1930. It's impossible to have both. Dairy farms are the same. Milk is cheaper than water so it's impossible to make a living on a family sized 60 cow farm. So farms get bigger and have 500 cows and the result is that the cows can't go out as there are too many to graze near the farmstead. Expect it to get worse. With the withdrawal of EU subsidies many more family farms will go out of business

Gosh, I didn't realise EU subsidies were so essential.  Isn't there a new scheme now though??

[CLKD]

There are schemes but it can take a while for them to kick in.  I remember when farmers were paid to grub out ancient hedgerows to accommodate more wheat fields, then we got what is known as "Fen Drift" which meant that farmers had to reseed 2/3 times .  The earth would blow off the fields on2 the roads like a smog 

Every farmer had his own machinery.  Those on small acres borrowed and every farm hand mucked in to get the harvest in by late August.  Then would be Harvest Festival in Sept., now harvest seems to be reeped earlier ??

If we had smaller fields, less heavier machinery which impacts on the soil, plus a rest season ....... and rotation as it was ........ and buy in season as close to the farm as possible: i.e. we can't grow spuds or tomatoes any cheaper than from the supermarket or farm shops.  Making use of batch cooking when items are cheaper, using the freezer space appropriately makes a difference and of course, jam/marmalade making and preserving is important with gluts.

[sheila99]

Did you see Our Family Farm Rescue tonight? They found some paperwork from 1949 - the price they got for a lamb then was the same as it today. Who else is expected to pay 2020 prices on 1949 wages?
I'm a little surprised by 1949, rumour amongst farmers is 1970s prices.

[CLKD]

I think it depends on the area and how good the stock might be.

They had got themselves in a real muddle.  I don't like lamb in any form (other than newly born ;-) ).  I don't like smoked foods.  It's a niche market.  Already the dynamic on that farm has altered and now they have to employ a manager 

There was mention that they had considered letting out some of the fields but didn't like the idea of someone else farming them  .  Sometimes in order to survive financially 1 has to let go.  That's why estates and farms became smaller in recent years due to Inheritance tax and simply not making money from the enterprise.

I am looking forwards to the next programme. 

[Gynaikeíos]

Haven't farms got bigger, though? Mega dairy and mega cropping? It looks more industrial than even 20 years ago to me. That has a social effect, I would bet. Prince Charles stands up for small farms. The EU stands up for small farms for good social reasons. British governments CBA, and let good small farm businesses go?? There is biodiversity loss with bigger farms. 100 hectares that would have a lot of variety as a small farm becoming one block of monoculture for a megafarm cannot be a benefit.

I did not see the program, but wouldn't the price made for produce sold from the farm in the 1940's buy loads more then than the same price now?

[Aprilflower]

Haven't farms got bigger, though? Mega dairy and mega cropping? It looks more industrial than even 20 years ago to me. That has a social effect, I would bet. Prince Charles stands up for small farms. The EU stands up for small farms for good social reasons. British governments CBA, and let good small farm businesses go?? There is biodiversity loss with bigger farms. 100 hectares that would have a lot of variety as a small farm becoming one block of monoculture for a megafarm cannot be a benefit.

I did not see the program, but wouldn't the price made for produce sold from the farm in the 1940's buy loads more then than the same price now?

Incomes were much lower.

Growing up we hardly ever had joints or chicken.  Mainly mince, sausages and liver.  Sunday lunch was usually homemade corned beef pie.

[CLKD]

That's a reminder.  Liver with onions; chicken as a treat; lots of sausages, eggs, beans on toast, macaroni cheese etc.. Every 5.00 o'clock tea was the same each week, i.e. boiled eggs with fingers on a Monday, quick after Mum had done the laundry.

Also, farmer hands were often in tied cottages so could hardly afford to take time off sick in case they lost their homes.  Some farmers did give their hands an egg and milk allowance as well as a veg. plot as part of their wages.  My maternal Aunt worked 4 the same farm in the house where my Uncle was a cowman, his wife took in laundry .  The bulls were always 'Thomas'. 

I don't remember what happened to waste - very few plastics then.  Meat, butter, cheese all wrapped in greaseproof paper which was reused.  Often.  Chicken was a treat, even bit used.  Roasted with lots of veg., cold in salads/veg. and the bones boiled for soups.  Granny had a pot on the bubble all week with bits thrown in, added veg on the Friday for the mens evening meal.  The bones were probably dug into the ground .......... everyone had a composting system and those who kept chicken would add the muck to that = Very Good manure ;-). 

[CLKD]

Apparently, due to lack of wind powering those ugly concrete-based turbines, 2 coal fired power stations had to be kicked in to compensate the UK or the lights would have gone out  .  That is as well as buying in from mainland Europe, which is likely to be nuclear powered stations ........... be careful what you wish for?