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[sheila99]

Great. So I am paying for them to sit on their backsides doing nothing while perfectly good apples go to waste and we import them from elsewhere. Tells you everything that's wrong with this country and why the climate change problem will never be fixed.

[Sparrow]

Great. So I am paying for them to sit on their backsides doing nothing while perfectly good apples go to waste and we import them from elsewhere. Tells you everything that's wrong with this country and why the climate change problem will never be fixed.

I think you are picking on the wrong villain here.

The reason that all the apples are not being picked is because EU seasonal worker are no longer coming over in the same numbers as before.  The reason for that is that 1) Uncertainty due to 'you know what' and 2) The weakness of the pound due in part to 'you know what'.

As for the unemployed, of course some do just want to 'sit on their backsides', as you say.  However, I would say that that does not apply to most of them.  Anyone can find themselves unemployed, at sometime in their lives.  Also there are many who, however hard they try, just cannot find work.  This applies particularly to those with physical or mental illnesses, single parents, ex-service personnel, those over 50, those with the wrong postcode (people living on sink estates find it difficult even when fully qualified) and those with a criminal record.   The last category is particularly interesting as despite the  Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (which means after a set time period they no longer have to declare their offence on a job application form),  many spend the preceding years unable to find work.  As around one in three men and one in ten women, have a criminal record this is bound to have an affect.

Sorry if I've bored you but it's not a straight forward problem. 

[CLKD]

Not bored yet Shadyglade - I watched a programme with Simon Reeve well not literally  last night who is touring the States.  There were iternirante workers from Mexico, many of them illegal.  Picking what he called 'sugar beet' but were actually turnips  , topping and tailing at a rate of knots into a plastic bucket.

The man running the Farm had advertised for local work force.  He had 8 people reply for more info., 5 [I think] who filled in an application form, 4 turned up to work and lasted a day.  They found it too hard! 

When I was a kid in the Fens we had a workers' camp - lines of Nissen huts left over from the War which housed youngsters from Czecholovakia and Hungary ........ they arrived in the Spring and stayed until October/Nov..  Now that the economies 'over there' are improving they don't have to travel to the UK to work at break-backing, toiling, long, wet, muddy jobs.  And I don't think that many people have any idea how our fruits/veg. get to the shelves  as it arrives pristine - even I am amazed that anyone will do those menial, messy jobs.  Then there are the HUGE machines which are ruining the soil across the UK which are GPS controlled.  Taking the place of many workers .........


As an aside: I treated myself to a subscription to BBC Wildlife magazine.  In the 12 months I've had 4 reminders that my sub is going to run out, the 1 today tells me that it has and would I like to renew?  Now this is a Company that is 'on about' climate change and global warming 

[Hurdity]

So we have 1.3 million people unemployed yet none are capable of picking apples... We shouldn't need migrant labour.

As a civilised society we welcome people coming legally from other countries or different parts of the UK to work in whatever industry they choose and where needed. I would not want anyone feeling they were unwelcome here. I wonder what the wages are for fruit-picking anyway? As Shadyglade says - the work is very seasonal so people who do this valuable work may have to move from place to place.

The issue of apples was highlighted recently on Ed Balls programme. The truth is we're a damn fussy lot - the whole of the developed world and beyond. Can't remember specifically which brands and sizes were referred to but something like - we export very large apples because some other countries like them and import some others bceuase of the taste. Also to do with crunchiness etc. This is what's wrong - not in terms of picking or anything but in terms of food miles and hence sustainability. Of course we should consume as much as possible of what we produce - and export the surplus. Equally import what we can't produce and certain foodstuffs to add interest to our diet ( I mean - olives, coffee for goodness sake  ) - but not unseasonal fruit and veg- that really is unsustainable  - strawberries and tomatoes in winter (except as a very expensive luxury perhpas) or green beans imported from African countries - we certainly don't need these....

We really all need to drastically change our lifestyle and habits to be in with a chance of halting climate change - and stop consuming and demanding so much stuff!

CLKD that's a very damning judgment - all sorts of "louts" exist of all classes and nationalities. It tends to tar all Fens migrant workers ( where did they come from?) with the same brush.  I do agree we shouldn't be hung up on pristine fruit and veg!

Hurdity x

[CLKD]

However: imports from Kenya were a part of the agreement when the country split from GB.  It keeps workers able to put food on the table.

Also often what we grow in the UK is immediately exported, without the British housewife being able to get her hands on it! 

[sheila99]

Migrant workers get the same minimum wage as everyone else. If we had the same unemployment benefit as those in Eastern Europe you'd be surprised how many people would suddenly be capable of picking apples and stop thinking manual work is beneath them. Yes, there are some people who aren't capable and those with childcare responsibilities who can't work away but out of 1.3 million I can't believe there aren't a few hundred who could do it.
I don't think supermarkets always sell what we want, sometimes it feels we buy it because that's what they sell. I love tomatoes but rarely buy them from a supermarket because they're so tasteless. And there's things like New Zealand lamb discussed above. British lamb is available year round but some supermarkets choose not to sell it so anyone shopping there can't make the choice to buy British. And carrots - can't buy misshapen ones in a supermarket. I buy 10kg of perfectly good horse carrots for £2, I eat as many as the horse does.

[CLKD]

Apparently a University has become 'carbon neutral'.  How?  If there are people there they will put out gases: any heating, lighting etc. has to come from somewhere  - they are going to the loo? and eating during the day?  One cannot become completely carbon neutral!  The Students have to get to/from the Campus.  What are the students wearing, eating, carrying books etc. which are made of?   

[Taz2]

It's The American University. They've hit their target an amazing two years earlier than the target they set themselves. Most of our universities are aiming for 2030!

It's all to do with being allowed to offset the things that can't be totally neutralised against ones that can. I can't link from my phone but there is a video statement and details of how they did it if you Google American University carbon neutral.

Taz x

[CLKD]

Tnx.  This 'off setting' has a long way to go B4 it's valid though .  DH looked it up when Elton John 'offset' last year and apparently one Company are felling trees in order to plant new ones  .  Which people are paying for in order of 'offset' ........ it's all double Dutch to me 

[sheila99]

Of course it works. All you have to do is wait several million years until they turn into coal... 

[CLKD]

 

I have a huge amount of non-kerbside collectable plastics, off to supermarket later today: some of it is there's, i.e. what gets wrapped round bananas, apples etc. 

[CLKD]

I was in a garden centre on Sunday and they are selling re-cycled plastic in the form of chairs.  Plastic collected from the ocean which is squashed and make into pellets then I lost the gist  - the colours are bright, wooden legs and small pads on the feet.  Probably best suited to a conservatory or kitchen but a Good Idea 

[Pennyfarthing]

i have always done all I can to reduce plastic waste and I ran a local litter collecting group for several years and once a month I go and help with a beach clean.

however, until countries like India do their bit it's almost a waste of time trying to save the planet.  India is the most polluted country in the world and has rivers with plastic waste bergs miles long.  It is absolutely disgusting. They also have vast rubbish tips where children scavenge through - it makes me feel sick.

I would never visit India for that reason.  Every country should be doing all they can not just our country.

[CLKD]

I was watching escape to the country earlier - a boat builder was importing magahony from Brazil and Teak from Brazil - both woods that I  believe are not allowed 2 B imported into the UK anymore ........... English oak for the oars; lip service?

[CLKD]

Hundreds have called for the organisers of a Greta Thunberg climate change rally to pay for damage caused to green space.

Around 15,000 people are believed to have attended Friday's Bristol Youth Strike 4 Climate rally, churning up College Green and angering many.

A fundraiser was set up for repairs, which then resulted in calls for rally organisers to cover the costs.

The organiser said people had done their best in the muddy conditions.


All these attendees walked to the event then? What's wrong with Skype?  One of the kids looked absolutely terrified in a photograph released yesterday.  How much will the parents be fined by UK Schools for taking their kids out of Education?