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Author Topic: Oestrodose vs oestrogel saga  (Read 9991 times)

Jasmine_2015

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Oestrodose vs oestrogel saga
« on: April 14, 2019, 05:02:18 PM »

Hello,

I have read some previous threads (including Hurditys investigation- thank you for doing this!!) but am still a bit confused as to the conclusion. I have never been given oestrogel, only oestrodose despite being prescribed oestrogel. I didn't have any luck when I asked my pharmacy to order the oestrogel, they just kept saying it's the same (which I get it sort of is!)

I have to use 4 pumps and at some point may have to increase, I do find it takes a long time to rub in and dry so would like to try oestrogel to see if it makes a difference.

I just wondered if anyone had had any luck with getting it through an online pharmacy or any other tips for trying to get oestrogel instead of oestrodose?!
« Last Edit: April 14, 2019, 05:04:41 PM by Jasmine_2015 »
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Kathleen

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Re: Oestrodose vs oestrogel saga
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2019, 05:22:13 PM »

Hello Jasmine_2015.

I had Oestrogel initially but then the pharmacy started to give me Oestrodose. I wasn't sure if there was a difference but some ladies mentioned a rash appearing with Oestrodose so I told the pharmacist that this product irritated my skin so I needed Oestrogel. Since then I make sure that I write ' Oestrogel Pump Pack 17B Oestradiol. Besins Healthcare' on my prescription before I hand it in. I have been given the correct Oestrogel ever since, infact they always check that they've got it right before dispensing, perhaps they think the note is an instruction from my GP? Little do they know I wrote it and I'm certainly not owing up lol.

Hope this helps and take care.

K.

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Dotty

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Re: Oestrodose vs oestrogel saga
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2019, 05:26:58 PM »

I specify that I want Oestrogel and not Oestradose. If the pharmacy say they can't get it then I go to a different pharmacy .

I was told by a pharmacist that if the prescription says Oestrogel then they have to prescribe Oestrogel. If it says Oestradiol Gel then they can give you either. X
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Tc

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Re: Oestrodose vs oestrogel saga
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2019, 05:32:48 PM »

Jasmine. I was given eastradose too. I didnt even realise it wasnt eastrogel.i cant offer a comparrison as I switched to patch.
But i completely concur with what Kathleen has said
Last time I went to get my estradot the pharmasist gave me everol.  I said the active Ingredient might be the same but other ingredients might not. It's even much bigger in size.
He said if the doc writes a generic name and doesnt specify then the pharmacy will have a "go to" product . I said "you mean the cheapeat" and he said "well...yes".

I properly put my foot down and he changed it but  said make sure the doc is very specific next time or the same thing will happen.
 
As dotty says If your doc wrote eastrogel and not "estradiol gel" then going by my pharmasist thats what you should be given.
. Xx
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Turkish delight

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Re: Oestrodose vs oestrogel saga
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2019, 06:04:02 PM »

Hia Jasmine!

I actually have Oestrogel basins blah blah the whole shebang written/printed by my doctor in type on my script, he just did it without me knowing.
 
I'm still on my 1st pump of Oestrogel, but since then I had a script filled and got Oestrodose, soon to be trying it.
I didn't complain bcz I thought it was exactly the same. Can someone link Hurditys post so I can see?

I haven't tried Oestrdose yet, what is the difference? Is it ingredients or anecdotally different?

TD

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Jasmine_2015

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Re: Oestrodose vs oestrogel saga
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2019, 06:39:20 PM »

Wow thank you all so much. I really appreciate your responses. Very helpful.
Sounds like I am going to need to try and be a bit more pushy, arghhh!! Will do my best 😉

Really cannot thank you ladies in this forum enough for being so kind and helpful.
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Jasmine_2015

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Re: Oestrodose vs oestrogel saga
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2019, 08:22:30 PM »

Hia Jasmine!

I actually have Oestrogel basins blah blah the whole shebang written/printed by my doctor in type on my script, he just did it without me knowing.
 
I'm still on my 1st pump of Oestrogel, but since then I had a script filled and got Oestrodose, soon to be trying it.
I didn't complain bcz I thought it was exactly the same. Can someone link Hurditys post so I can see?

I haven't tried Oestrdose yet, what is the difference? Is it ingredients or anecdotally different?

TD

TD sorry here is the link to Hurditys post and investigation

https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,40586.msg680870.html#msg680870


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Hurdity

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Re: Oestrodose vs oestrogel saga
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2019, 09:58:28 PM »

Just to clarify once more:

OESTROGEL AND OESTRODOSE ARE EXACTLY THE SAME.

I know I keep saying this, but I realise new members won't know that this saga has been going on for - well - years i think, so just saying it again!

Thanks for posting that link Jasmine - everything I found out is on there. Unfortunately the thread was led off on rather irrelevant tangents from time to time which distracted from the main points and suggested conspiracies at work. There is no evidence (other than as you say, anecdotal) that what women have been given is anything other than what Besins produce which is Oestrogel/Oestrodose 0.06% estradiol gel, given different names according to different countries.

Just to be clear - Oestrodose is not a generic form of Oestrogel (neither are Evorel and Estradot generics - both are branded forms of estradiol patch and completely different although on average deliver the same dose of oestrogen). A generic is a product with the same dose of active ingredient produced often with different fillers, and by a different company, cheaper than the branded product. Like I said - oestrodose is the name given to the gel produced by Besins in France Belgium and some other countries in continental Europe and elsewhere.

I have discussed this at length with Besins and have had several letters from them (as pdfs) with detailed responses to my detailed questions. I have also discussed this with Dr Louise Newson too (My Menopause Doctor) who has had the same information from Besins and I reported this on that thread I think too.

Any reports of a rash on any product should be reported under the side effects through the MHRA yellow card scheme, and of course to Besins if one particular batch of their gel has caused a reaction compared to other batches. So far noone has reported on here that they have reported such a batch to Besins (with the batch number etc) with a response from Besins. I think only one person mentioned they experienced this (a rash) in any case as far as I remember.

Tc please don't worry - it is oestrogel ie etradiol gel 0.06% with same ingredients manufactured by Besins in Belgium. No-one needs to worry - as it's all the same although the packaging would lead us to believe otherwise. Like I said in my last post on the main thread - why they have to do this (give different names to the same product) beats me as it causes all sorts of problems with patients feeling they are being given something other then they have been prescribed!

New members - forgive me if I sound a bit rattled - but have really tried to sort this out to avoid all of these arguments and allay any fears. If you want the box that says "Oestrogel" that's fine but you don't need to. There are more likely to be greater differences in the same bottle of whatever gel, stored at different temperatures, and time of year/temperature of your skin (affecting gel consistency), as well as what products you have used on your skin (affecting absorption) as GypsyRoseLee found and reported on another thread recently.

 :peace:

Hurdity :) x
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Turkish delight

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Re: Oestrodose vs oestrogel saga
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2019, 10:21:38 PM »

Thanks Jasmine!

Hurdity, Amen to that!

You have the patience of a saint and have gone above and beyond by the sounds of it.

I for one won't get it twisted.

Thank you for your tireless explaining (I've read all the back story now)

 :foryou:

TD
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Tc

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Re: Oestrodose vs oestrogel saga
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2019, 10:41:55 PM »

I think that clears it up re eoastrogel and eastradose. Thanks hurdity. Thank goodness you have done all this research and can offer such informed advice. I hope you dont get fed up of repeating it but it seems to raise its head time and again.

As you know. I didnt absorb the gel so stopped  but it's good to have it confirmed it wouldve been no different for me on eastrogel than eastradose.

My problem with my pharmasist was being given everol instead of estradot. It's a bigger patch. And I must confess until I just read your post I wasnt sure if the other ingredients aside from the active ingredient were the same.
So thank you.hurdity.

 Good night ladies    xxxx
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Jasmine_2015

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Re: Oestrodose vs oestrogel saga
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2019, 05:56:01 AM »

Thanks Hurdity and apologies for bringing this back up. X
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Hurdity

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Re: Oestrodose vs oestrogel saga
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2019, 07:22:20 AM »

Please don't apologise! The time I or any of us lose patience is the time to stop posting.

I must again make it clear that there are some women who feel there is a difference. Louise Newson wondered as I did about the pump mechanism (from the repackaged parallel import, not the one that comes directly from Besins which isn't repackaged except for the leaflet and box - is there a box?) possibly delivering a very slightly lower amount of gel although I was assured by Besins that these are measured excactly as they would have to be if sold as the same product. If there was a minute difference then women on larger doses and who are also very sensitive to very small changes might notice a difference, although as I said there is likely to be some variation even with absorption from the same bottle depending on temperature.

Anyway glad you are reassured and good luck with it!

Tc - yes Evorel and Estradot are different - much more so than generics in a liquid or tablet - because the dosage is based on average release rate from a groupd of studied individuals, not the total estradiol in the patch which as you say are the same size and have different fillers ( given in the leaflet I think?).

Hurdity x
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Jasmine_2015

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Re: Oestrodose vs oestrogel saga
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2019, 08:20:28 AM »

Thanks Hurdity,

Oh well, it is strange isn't it?

Have a good day,
Jas x
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Lizp

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Re: Oestrodose vs oestrogel saga
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2020, 12:02:32 PM »

Hi, is anyone still reading these posts?  I started on Oestrodose about 5 months ago.  I had bleeding for the first 3 months and a shortness in breath.  Both issues settled for the last 2 months.  Then 10 days ago I started a new prescription which was Oestrogel.  My bleeding and breathing issues have started again and are continuing so far.  I spoke with the nurse practitioner yesterday who recommended that I return to Oestrodose as I must be getting more estrogen from Oestrogel. They have had to order Oestrodose specifically so am still on Oestrogel but have reduce the amount dispensed from one to approximately 3/4.  No change yet but I get the Oestrodose tomorrow.
Any thoughts?
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TeeLa

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Re: Oestrodose vs oestrogel saga
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2020, 01:02:03 PM »

There is definitely a difference in efficacy for some people. While manufacturers say both are identical Oestrodose is manufactured abroad and shipped here while the other is made in the UK.  They both, until recently had slightly different delivery systems too. You are not the only one to have experienced this. Despite my Dr refusing to believe there was a difference I have, with the help of my pharmacist, ensured that I used estrogel exclusively for the last 4 yrs as the other leads to a return of my symptoms.

Thankfully people are now beginning to accept this as fact and If you check out Liz Earle’s YouTube channel you will see a video on this in which she gives advice on how to ensure you get the right one. In addition Manchester Menopause Dr has been in contact with Besins (the manufacturer) about this issue and has been trying to make sure pharmacy’s listen to women’s who express a preference. You can check out a long thread on this on her instagram page @manchestermenopausehive.


My own thoughts are that it is the delivery system not necessarily the product (the pumps are different) that is the culprit.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2020, 01:09:45 PM by TeeLa »
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