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[Bluebell]

Hi ladies, I've had an irritable bladder for years due to menopause. I'm now six years post menopause and still having problems. A few years ago I was put on Vagifem for it and that seemed to do the trick most of the time. However it's becoming a real pain. After I go for a wee I feel I need to go back again.
The menopause nurse told me to take Vagifem every night ( normally I just use it twice a week) and at first it seemed to do the trick but now it's back again. She did say if it is still the same to go back in a month and she'll put me forward for a scan. I was wondering if anyone else is experiencing something similar.
I have had a urine test and it was negative also I've been doing pelvic floor exercises ( which sometimes aggravate it) because having had an internal she thought it wise to tighten things up a bit. 🙇🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤷🏼‍♀️

[Katejo]

Hi bluebell  I recommend that you ask your GP for a referral to a urogynaecologist. I don't have the condition but the consultant who saw me specialised in this problem and thought i might have it. She explained the following to me (did her PhD thesis on the subject. It is available online to read).

1. Irritable bladder can be caused by having UTI bacteria embedded in the wall of the bladder
2. UTI tests are often negative even though the infection is real because the embedded bacteria have non active periods when they are not multiplying so the tests don't pick them up.
3. 3 day courses of AB's are a complete waste of time. They don't deal with the problem. If my symptoms hadn't responded to Vagifem, she would have given me a long term antibiotic to sort the problem out.

Have a look at this article. Professor Malone has now retired but the consultant who saw me has recently taken over from him. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/20/in-pain-all-the-time-will-there-ever-be-relief-for-women-with-chronic-life-changing-utis

[Bluebell]

Thank you so much Katejo.
I'll take this and show the doctor. A few weeks ago I was put on antibiotics by a doctor before she had the results to say whether I had a urinary infection or not.
I was on them for four days and they completely upset my bowel..gave me lots of wind and a sore stomach. Then said to go to the Menopause nurse because she's more informed.
I will go and read the link you sent.
Thanks again for replying - if in doubt go onto Menopause Matters Forum. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[suzysunday]

Had problems with bladder issues since a bout of cystisis last September,  But I have vaginal atrophy and  I know it can mimic uti symptoms.   I use ovestin and no other hrt.  It's this feeling of pressure but no pain really.   It comes and goes. Had UTI tests but negative.  Confused and fed up.

[Bluebell]

Hi Suzysunday,
I was told I had vaginal atrophy too hence the Vagifem...but why has it stopped working? I feel pressure in my bladder and sometimes it feels like tremors🤷🏼‍♀️. Then as I said earlier after going for a wee I feel the need to go back again.
It's very wearing isn't it. Hopefully if I get a scan something will show up - but I'm not holding my breath. 😬

[CLKD]

Vaginal atrophy mimics urine infection-type symptoms really well.  You should not have been given ABs until the sample showed growth/not! 

Why did you stop using the 'vagifem' 

[suzysunday]

Yes Clkd you are right and so many on this forum have wee problems from atrophy.  I just hope to get rid of symptoms for longer than at the moment.   

[Katejo]

Vaginal atrophy mimics urine infection-type symptoms really well.  You should not have been given ABs until the sample showed growth/not! 

Why did you stop using the 'vagifem' 

Except that the unreliability of the urine tests mean that patients have been repeatedly refused AB's even though they have a continuing infection. I put this problem to the urogynaecologist this week. i said "Given the unreliability of the tests and the similarity between VA symptoms and UTI symptoms, how are we supposed to know when we need AB's?".
The doctor agreed with me that is was a definite problem.

[suzysunday]

It's really worrying. It's hard to ask gp's what tests are done on the urine.

[CLKD]

The urine sample will be sent to a Lab. to see if it 'grows' any bugs which will be killed by antibiotics. If they grown something that isn't going to be treatable, that's a worry.  Suitable anbitiobics deal with bugs - ABs do ease symptoms of VA along with over the counter pain relief and can be changed to appropriate ABs if there is a bug, however, more and more bugs are becoming resistant to ABs ............ which means that in a few years we will all be in danger because none of the bugs will be killed.

So it's a thin line as to appropriate treatment and it is a worry to me that the urogynaecologist can't be more positive and make positive suggestions about appropriate treatments.  If a urine sample doesn't grow a bug then there isn't likely to be a necessity for ABs. 

Sometimes I need to use Ovestin more often along with over the counter pain relief. So if I get niggling symptoms I do a 3 night 'load' then back to every 3rd and every 6th night.  I also find if my bowel is full that symptoms return 

Because Vagifem is a much lower dose than originally [10 instead of 25], many find that they need nightly applications in order to keep symptoms away, plus 'yes' or 'sylc' products.  We have a thread about bladder problems: sorry can't remember the title  but it might be helpful with more advice.

[CLKD]

Found it 'the burning club' - might be worthwhile having a look-see 

Some do have an embedded bug in the bladder wall which needs referral to the appropriate Consultant.  But in general, vaginal atrophy needs constant vigilance and extra treatment the moment symptoms niggle.

[suzysunday]

Clkd, have you tried systemic hrt for these symptoms?

[CLKD]

Sometimes I need to use Ovestin more often along with over the counter pain relief. So if I get niggling symptoms I do a 3 night 'load' then back to every 3rd and every 6th night.  I also find if my bowel is full that symptoms return 


I have had a prescription for about 3 years now.  Works for me thus far 

[JaneinPen]

I agree with Katejo Bluebell.  I had repeated UTI's (literally one after the other) and eventually one GP decided it had gone on for too long and sent my sample off for further testing. This did show a hard to treat bacteria.  The usual UTI meds just will not work if you have this. After months of grief it was a relief to finally have a GP think outside of the box and get it properly checked. Two lots of strong AB's sorted it out and then I started Vagifem which I use now three times a week. I also had scans with a full bladder and the straight after with an empty one and a cystoscopy which showed that my bladder thankfully was in good health and working properly. I hope you manage to get a more thorough check if your sample and also get some relief

[suzysunday]

It's good you got your condition sorted Herdwick.   I feel that this niggle wee feeling I get is atrophy rather than a recurring uti, even though it happened after a cystitis bout, it was after not using hrt for 3 months after bleeding, and the atrophy kept at bay with tibolone just kicked in.  I have had about 4 urine tests.  GP said this week if I get symptoms for more than a couple of days to take another sample.  Just keep plodding on.