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[EnglishRose]

Sorry I am not complaining as I know insomnia is a big big issue and I wouldn't swap so please do not think I am moaning, just curious as to why more than anything

Before I crashed in Oct 2018 i would have a few days a month where I could sleep 10 to 12 hours and still have this thing when I fell asleep on the sofa after dinner no matter what, I could not control it.

Since I started HRT and since my meno hit hard in Oct, I am sleeping like the above every single day. The only time I don't sleep well is if I am due on a period and as my periods are quite literally a week to 2 weeks apart right now, I am in a constant state of PMS

HRT has most def lifted my mood. I am out of bed, walking the dogs back at work but my VA plagues me still, the constant close together periods and the amount of sleep.

Is is progesterone dominance? Not enough Oestrogen?

Progesterone is known to be a sedative hormone were as Oestrogen more of a stimulating hormone. (Or at least I was lead to believe this)

I have dropped my cyclogest to 200mg but still apply it to my skin every day. I am on 4 pumps of oestrogel for a month after starting on a lower dose 2 months ago.

I am terrifed to stop progesterone.. cold turkey after the years I have been using it each day but at the same time, if its that which is causing my VA (and I suspect it will be) I am also scared to keep on using it albeit through my legs and arm skin which is not how it was prepared to be used (its a pessary)

Thoughts and experiences .

[Conolly]

Hello EnglishRose,

I'm not on HRT but my sleep patterns have changed dramatically in the last couple of years. I'm 2 years postmenopause. Couldn't sleep at all in peri, can sleep for England now. So it seems to be hormonal but not necessarily associated to HRT. Maybe the adrenals as well as dying ovaries play a role.

Conolly X

[EnglishRose]

Hello EnglishRose,

I'm not on HRT but my sleep patterns have changed dramatically in the last couple of years. I'm 2 years postmenopause. Couldn't sleep at all in peri, can sleep for England now. So it seems to be hormonal but not necessarily associated to HRT. Maybe the adrenals as well as dying ovaries play a role.

Conolly X

Hmmm. It's odd. 99% suffer from insomnia and I've certainly suffered with it prior to a periodeven now but the rest of the time.... sleeping for England.
I'm aware of another lady similar to me but she also has the fatigue and lack of energy too.
I don't think its iron as I've not bleed properly for several years until recently.
Either way I would NOT want to swap for insomnia, it's truly torture and I've never had it more than a few days at once (touch wood)
I would hate it. It makes everything so much harder to cope with.
I bet you're glad it's passed too !

[Shadyglade]

I sleep in much later, this time of year. I think it's a nature hibernation pattern in humans.

Enjoy. 

[Hurdity]

Hi there - I sleep too much - but I am mid 60's and well post-meno. I have no vitamin or iron deificiencies that I know of but I think my cortisol awakening response doesn't really work properly! Most annoying as I used to leap out of bed full of energy for the day. Now takes me some time to get going and still feel sleepy for quite a long time. Not 10 hours though but easily 8-9 which is far too much I feel!

Hurdity x

[CLKD]

If your body and brain require it, you will sleep.

VitD and iron levels should be checked particularly if bleeding often.  Otherwise, enjoy it. 

[EnglishRose]

Thanks ladies. X

[Rosie63]

I find I sleep a lot more than I used to and I find it hard to come round in the mornings.  I also seem to dream a lot more, especially if I'm going through a rough time.  It's almost as though I've got a temperature. I'm really trying to give myself a good talking to to make myself get up and go for a walk.  It's a work in progress at the moment🙄 x

Rosie x

[CLKD]

I dream - long, busy stories  .  I can never say that I've slept too much because I believe that the body/brain will sleep when it requires rest.  However, my dreams don't give me rest!

[Rosie63]

My husband said I was calling out “help me, help me” last night.  I remember I was being chased by someone so wasn't surprised to be told I was restless in the night 😏

Rosie x

[CLKD]

I sing sometimes 

[EnglishRose]

EnglishRose, have you had thyroid checks? When you wake, are you still sleepy or groggy?
Progesterone won't cause VA, but lack of oestrogen will.
VA begins a long time before you see the signs, so by the time you feel it, you know it's not a recent development. You need oestrogen for that, as i'm Sure you already know.
Sorry if you've already said, but are you using progesterone before you go to bed or during the day?
Wish I could sleep for hours. X

I apply 200mg (reduced from 500!) to my arm or leg like skin cream but its actually a pessary (cyclogest) which is waxy so i wont be getting 200mg and I apply it last thing at night but quite often I have fallen asleep by then so wake up and apply first thing.

I STUPIDLY used progesterone (alone) like the above for 6 years or more believing it was a calming hormone.

Had my bloods done in May 2017 Oestrogen at <18 FSH 70 (Meno range)

Oct all Hell broke loose. Started Oestrogel and local oestrogen 9 weeks ago but oonly increased to 4 pumps 4 weeks ago so I suspect my oestrogen is still low or else how can I use 4 pumps and not be a jittery wreck? Booked to have bloods tested again.

I may find once oestrogen is up and prog down insomnia may bite me in the ass!

My Dad and his Dad both had Thyroid issues but ive had them tested a few times all good, (not since I started sleeping like the dead though)

[EnglishRose]

You need oestrogen for normal thyroid function. You may have a sluggish thyroid. And, if you are anything like me, a relatively small amount of progesterone will counteract your oestrogen. Still very envious though. Are you on good form when you wake?

Yes, well I mean I'm forgetful and I'm putting coffee in the fridge and butter in the microwave but that's part of meno.
I think progesterone has contributed to my va if not caused it bc I wasn't taking oestrogen so I've become progesterone dominant. Not many peri can tolerate 4 pumps, it's usually only after meno that they up to,4 pumps.
If my bloods show very low oestrogen I'm going to have to look into stopping progesterone just to allow oestrogen a chance to get ahold. I feel like all that prog stored in my fat cells is making it harder to get oestrogen levels up.

Prog keeps the uterus lining thin and I think long term high doses will create issues of VA in addition to pushing oestrogen down, but it's just a theory

[CLKD]

I rarely want to wake up and face the day but once out of bed, that feeling of gloom goes, fortunately.

[EnglishRose]

I was progesterone dominant for ages because, like you. I was slapping on the P cream for years believing high oestrogen was to blame for my bad moods, poor health etc.
It took me about two months before my oestrogen was back up to a relatively high level. However, it did not budge when I used HRT patches.
It is only since using bio identical lozenges that may hormones have budged.

Hi Birdy
Did you just stop the Progesterone cream all at once? I'm down to 200mg cyclogest but I'm terrified of stopping it.
What dose were you using?
My prescriber wants me off cyclogest as it's not a licensed form or progesterone in the uk it's used for HRT.
She's given me micronised Progesterone which she's said I can use vaginall if I prefer.
I'd love to stop Progesterone but been on it so long everyday now I'm so scared of just stopping it.